XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen
XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
From: zen102422@zen.co.uk
"Julian" wrote in message
news:i45nhs$kqe$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 14/08/2010 09:14, halfawake wrote:
>> Julian wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/08/2010 18:21, DT wrote:
>>>
>>>> Evelyn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "DT" wrote in message
>>>>> news:i418a202llk@news3.newsguy.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Evelyn wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Julian" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:i40qsf$hbn$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/08/2010 13:10, Jigme Dorje wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 12, 5:18 am, Julian
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/08/2010 08:18, halfawake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Julian wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2010 11:39, Catawumpus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> halfawake:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fake conversation is between you and your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ass. Hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're having a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fake conversation is the one Evelyn openly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> admitted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when she denied she was offering a real one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfect sense in light of all the fake
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accusations she's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tossed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They are not fake. They are real accusations
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubstantiated.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't expect anything else after the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Occultists, and the so
>>>>>>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Korean Zen" and Tibetanista teachers, have so
>>>>>>>>>>>> profoundly
>>>>>>>>>>>> twisted her
>>>>>>>>>>>> melon,
>>>>>>>>>>>> man.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you really want to get occult, try the
>>>>>>>>>>> assertions of the
>>>>>>>>>>> Lotus Sutra,
>>>>>>>>>>> largely based on supernaturalism and magical
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are keen and verbose in seeking evidence with
>>>>>>>>>> respect to
>>>>>>>>>> Tibetan foetid rascalities before you'll cease to
>>>>>>>>>> deny such
>>
>> Yes, proving a negative was never my strong suit, since
>> it is
>> impossible. One doesn't take assertions that have no
>> evidence and find
>> evidence to refute it. I challenge you to find evidence
>> that there is n
>> such thing as a unicorn. Prove it. You can't. If you
>> assert that the
>> Tibetan lamas have done something you have to provide the
>> evidence, and
>> it has to be real evidence or it is pure bullshit. That
>> won't stop you
>> from saying it is true over and over again will it?
>> Asserting things to
>> exist that have no evidence is a strength of yours and
>> other
>> anti-Tibetan ideologues. You find a book with
>> unsubstantiated assertions
>> and use it as a citation, or a picture that is supposedly
>> of skin taken
>> from living people with no evidence to support it and
>> then go on about
>> it as if it were proven. And that is the worst kind of
>> propaganda. If
>> you said that Romanians skinned their babies alive I'd
>> have the same
>> reaction. I don't care if it's about Tibetans or people
>> from Chicago.
>> I'm not a fan of malicious propaganda.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> so presumeably you must have copious evidence
>>>>>>>>>> that the Lotus Sutra
>>>>>>>>>> is "largely based on supernaturalism and magical
>>>>>>>>>> thinking"
>>>>>>>>>> and not on the assiduous practice and study of
>>>>>>>>>> Buddhism.
>>>>>>>>>> Please share it.
>>
>> When I get a chance I may do that. Meanwhile, if you
>> think that the
>> whole setup of the Lotus Sutra, asserting the unending
>> lineage of
>> Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, most of them never heard of in
>> any other
>> Theravadin or Mahayana record before or after, speaking
>> of their occult,
>> magical and supernatural doings, and how the sutra itself
>> has myriad
>> magical powers, shifting the emphasis from personal
>> enlightenment
>> through understanding to the magical thinking of being
>> graced with
>> enlightenment by the mystical power of the sutra itself,
>> is not an
>> exercise in magical thinking and supernaturalism of the
>> highest order,
>> then that's fine. If you literally accept all of that on
>> faith, then you
>> are a religious worshipper, which is also fine. And if
>> you think the
>> same magical thinking that the repeated chanting of the
>> name of the
>> lotus sutra, with or without any understanding of the
>> kind that
>> characterizes the meditative tradition of Buddhism, is
>> not an exercise
>> in occultism and magical thinking, then that is fine too,
>> but it seems
>> pretty obvious that it is ordinary mantra meditation of
>> the kind
>> believed in by Hindus more than Buddhists. Go ahead and
>> say whatever you
>> like about it. I'm not even saying it doesn't work. What
>> I am saying is
>> that it is rankly hypocritical to believe in that kind of
>> magical
>> thinking and accuse Tibetan Buddhism of being overly
>> occult! What's the
>> difference?
>>
>> If the Lotus Sutra has great content and teaching in it,
>
> If you could just spend a couple of hours reading it you
> might then understand
> why a host of great sages from, for instance, T'ient-t'ai
> to Hakuin and beyond
> hold it in such high esteem and why it is widely regarded
> as one of the seminal
> works of the Mahayana and even today Zen Temples across
> the world have it
> as a central part of their curriculum and daily practice.
spoken like any ol' jehovah's witness. all of that may be
so, but it still ignores robert's point.
possum
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