XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: kimmerian@fastmail.fm   
      
   Catawumpus :   
      
   >>            In the Apannaka Sutta the   
   >> Buddha plainly says "There actually is the next world."  He   
   >> calls that statement "right speech," describes that proposition   
   >> as "true dhamma," etc., and distinguishes "the good   
   >> destination" from "the bad destination."  Exactly what you deny.   
      
   oxtail :   
      
   > And its translator says:   
      
        The translator says you're wrong by observing -- correctly   
   -- that the sutta isn't confined to arguments of the   
   "safe-bet" style.  Apparently you don't comprehend the material   
   you paste in.   
      
   > [quote]   
   > It is noteworthy that the arguments in A2 and B2 are not safe-bet   
   > arguments, for they assume that A is wrong and B is right.   
   > [/quote]   
      
        You're making my point for me.  The "safe-bet argument" is   
   part of the sutta, not the sutta as a whole, which also   
   contends "There actually is the next world" and teaches that to   
   say so is right speech.   
      
   > [quote]   
   > Whether these arguments date from the Buddha or were added at a later   
   > date, no one knows.   
   > [/quote]   
      
        You don't have to believe what the Buddha says there.  You   
   don't have to believe the sutta describes his teaching   
   correctly.  But misrepresenting the sutta to make it match with   
   your beliefs is dishonesty.   
      
   -- Catawumpus   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)