XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen
XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
From: epsteinrob@yahoo.com
possum wrote:
> "Julian" wrote in message
> news:i45nhs$kqe$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>>On 14/08/2010 09:14, halfawake wrote:
>>
>>>Julian wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 12/08/2010 18:21, DT wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Evelyn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"DT" wrote in message
>>>>>>news:i418a202llk@news3.newsguy.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Evelyn wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Julian" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:i40qsf$hbn$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On 12/08/2010 13:10, Jigme Dorje wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Aug 12, 5:18 am, Julian
>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On 12/08/2010 08:18, halfawake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Julian wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On 11/08/2010 11:39, Catawumpus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>halfawake:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The fake conversation is between you and your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ass. Hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you're having a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The fake conversation is the one Evelyn openly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>admitted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>when she denied she was offering a real one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Which makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>perfect sense in light of all the fake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>accusations she's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tossed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>They are not fake. They are real accusations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>unsubstantiated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>You can't expect anything else after the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Occultists, and the so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>called
>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Korean Zen" and Tibetanista teachers, have so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>profoundly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>twisted her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>melon,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>man.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>If you really want to get occult, try the
>>>>>>>>>>>>assertions of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>Lotus Sutra,
>>>>>>>>>>>>largely based on supernaturalism and magical
>>>>>>>>>>>>thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You are keen and verbose in seeking evidence with
>>>>>>>>>>>respect to
>>>>>>>>>>>Tibetan foetid rascalities before you'll cease to
>>>>>>>>>>>deny such
>>>
>>>Yes, proving a negative was never my strong suit, since
>>>it is
>>>impossible. One doesn't take assertions that have no
>>>evidence and find
>>>evidence to refute it. I challenge you to find evidence
>>>that there is n
>>>such thing as a unicorn. Prove it. You can't. If you
>>>assert that the
>>>Tibetan lamas have done something you have to provide the
>>>evidence, and
>>>it has to be real evidence or it is pure bullshit. That
>>>won't stop you
>>>from saying it is true over and over again will it?
>>>Asserting things to
>>>exist that have no evidence is a strength of yours and
>>>other
>>>anti-Tibetan ideologues. You find a book with
>>>unsubstantiated assertions
>>>and use it as a citation, or a picture that is supposedly
>>>of skin taken
>>>from living people with no evidence to support it and
>>>then go on about
>>>it as if it were proven. And that is the worst kind of
>>>propaganda. If
>>>you said that Romanians skinned their babies alive I'd
>>>have the same
>>>reaction. I don't care if it's about Tibetans or people
>>>from Chicago.
>>>I'm not a fan of malicious propaganda.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>so presumeably you must have copious evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>that the Lotus Sutra
>>>>>>>>>>>is "largely based on supernaturalism and magical
>>>>>>>>>>>thinking"
>>>>>>>>>>>and not on the assiduous practice and study of
>>>>>>>>>>>Buddhism.
>>>>>>>>>>>Please share it.
>>>
>>>When I get a chance I may do that. Meanwhile, if you
>>>think that the
>>>whole setup of the Lotus Sutra, asserting the unending
>>>lineage of
>>>Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, most of them never heard of in
>>>any other
>>>Theravadin or Mahayana record before or after, speaking
>>>of their occult,
>>>magical and supernatural doings, and how the sutra itself
>>>has myriad
>>>magical powers, shifting the emphasis from personal
>>>enlightenment
>>>through understanding to the magical thinking of being
>>>graced with
>>>enlightenment by the mystical power of the sutra itself,
>>>is not an
>>>exercise in magical thinking and supernaturalism of the
>>>highest order,
>>>then that's fine. If you literally accept all of that on
>>>faith, then you
>>>are a religious worshipper, which is also fine. And if
>>>you think the
>>>same magical thinking that the repeated chanting of the
>>>name of the
>>>lotus sutra, with or without any understanding of the
>>>kind that
>>>characterizes the meditative tradition of Buddhism, is
>>>not an exercise
>>>in occultism and magical thinking, then that is fine too,
>>>but it seems
>>>pretty obvious that it is ordinary mantra meditation of
>>>the kind
>>>believed in by Hindus more than Buddhists. Go ahead and
>>>say whatever you
>>>like about it. I'm not even saying it doesn't work. What
>>>I am saying is
>>>that it is rankly hypocritical to believe in that kind of
>>>magical
>>>thinking and accuse Tibetan Buddhism of being overly
>>>occult! What's the
>>>difference?
>>>
>>>If the Lotus Sutra has great content and teaching in it,
>>
>>If you could just spend a couple of hours reading it you
>>might then understand
>>why a host of great sages from, for instance, T'ient-t'ai
>>to Hakuin and beyond
>>hold it in such high esteem and why it is widely regarded
>>as one of the seminal
>>works of the Mahayana and even today Zen Temples across
>>the world have it
>>as a central part of their curriculum and daily practice.
>
>
> spoken like any ol' jehovah's witness. all of that may be
> so, but it still ignores robert's point.
>
>
> possum
>
>
...that's also true...
Robert
= = = =
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
|
