XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: evelyn.ruut@gmail.com   
      
   "firehose"  wrote in message   
   news:i494qt$nbc$2@news.eternal-september.org...   
   > syringe nipples wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 15/08/2010 11:58 PM, Julian wrote:   
   >>> On 15/08/2010 16:55, syringe nipples wrote:   
   >>>> On 15/08/2010 11:51 PM, Julian wrote:   
   >>>>> On 15/08/2010 16:39, syringe nipples wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 15/08/2010 11:32 PM, Julian wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 15/08/2010 16:08, Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> "Julian"   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> As for myself, I have only ever "chanted for" something once in   
   >>>>>>>>>> my life and far from involving anything magic/occult it was a   
   >>>>>>>>>> purely   
   >>>>>>>>>> mundane transaction. In order to obtain a Gohonzon I had to   
   >>>>>>>>>> demonstrate   
   >>>>>>>>>> mastery of the Gongyo ceremony. There was nothing whatsoever   
   >>>>>>>>>> magical   
   >>>>>>>>>> or occult in my performance of the ceremony merely the result of   
   >>>>>>>>>> the   
   >>>>>>>>>> long   
   >>>>>>>>>> and painful austerity of the assiduous practice that was (for   
   >>>>>>>>>> me) required   
   >>>>>>>>>> to master it. Just bloody hard work (and sore knees.)   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> And you make fun of tibetan buddhism?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Julian can speak for himself, but from my side, I can see the   
   >>>>>>>> humour of what he says. He says that he goes through the motion   
   >>>>>>>> without any faith in it. Just the bare motions, devoid of any   
   >>>>>>>> supernatural superstructure to infuse meaning into them. Like many   
   >>>>>>>> Christian priests and ministers who have lost faith. The   
   >>>>>>>> part:<>>>>>>> mundane transaction>> is very poignant. Also:<>>>>>>> work>>.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> It is also very poignant that you miss his humour.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Now just imagine a follower of the Tibetan religion going though   
   >>>>>>>> the Tantric motions day after day in such spirit ...   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Went through the motion, not "goes."   
   >>>>>>> Once I received the Gohonzon it was "game over!" :)   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> you can probably get those on ebay.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Indeed, although often they have to be paid for and it's unlikely   
   >>>>> that they are hand delivered by a Nichiren Shoshu priest.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Also, one is unlikely to be star guest at an after-party and have the   
   >>>>> close attention of a number of delighted Nip nubiles.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Besides... buying off Ebay is, I suggest, not so likely to have the   
   >>>>> desired effect on my "peers" at the time. They would have doubted   
   >>>>> it's legitimacy and thus the whole point would have been undermined.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>> did you convince yourself you were sincere at the time?   
   >>>   
   >>> Didn't need to. I knew my motive was, and still is, sincere.   
   >>   
   >> i could be forgiven for questioning. :)   
   >   
   >   
   > You have no idea what it took for him   
   > to act so civilized towards you.   
   > He should be really grateful.   
   > Still you were way out of line.   
      
      
   When one calls others practices into question, one should not be afraid to   
   speak of ones own, just as openly.   
   --   
   Best Regards,   
   Evelyn   
      
   In the stony fastness of the mountains there is a strange market, where one   
   may barter the vortex of life for boundless bliss.  – Milarepa   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)