XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: firehose@everywhere.com   
      
   Evelyn wrote:   
      
   > "firehose"  wrote in message   
   >> syringe nipples wrote:   
   >>> On 15/08/2010 11:58 PM, Julian wrote:   
   >>>> On 15/08/2010 16:55, syringe nipples wrote:   
   >>>>> On 15/08/2010 11:51 PM, Julian wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 15/08/2010 16:39, syringe nipples wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 15/08/2010 11:32 PM, Julian wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 15/08/2010 16:08, Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> "Julian"   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> As for myself, I have only ever "chanted for" something once   
   >>>>>>>>>>> in my life and far from involving anything magic/occult it was   
   >>>>>>>>>>> a purely   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mundane transaction. In order to obtain a Gohonzon I had to   
   >>>>>>>>>>> demonstrate   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mastery of the Gongyo ceremony. There was nothing whatsoever   
   >>>>>>>>>>> magical   
   >>>>>>>>>>> or occult in my performance of the ceremony merely the result   
   >>>>>>>>>>> of the   
   >>>>>>>>>>> long   
   >>>>>>>>>>> and painful austerity of the assiduous practice that was (for   
   >>>>>>>>>>> me) required   
   >>>>>>>>>>> to master it. Just bloody hard work (and sore knees.)   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> And you make fun of tibetan buddhism?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Julian can speak for himself, but from my side, I can see the   
   >>>>>>>>> humour of what he says. He says that he goes through the motion   
   >>>>>>>>> without any faith in it. Just the bare motions, devoid of any   
   >>>>>>>>> supernatural superstructure to infuse meaning into them. Like   
   >>>>>>>>> many Christian priests and ministers who have lost faith. The   
   >>>>>>>>> part:<>>>>>>>> mundane transaction>> is very poignant. Also:<>>>>>>>> work>>.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> It is also very poignant that you miss his humour.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Now just imagine a follower of the Tibetan religion going though   
   >>>>>>>>> the Tantric motions day after day in such spirit ...   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Went through the motion, not "goes."   
   >>>>>>>> Once I received the Gohonzon it was "game over!" :)   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> you can probably get those on ebay.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Indeed, although often they have to be paid for and it's unlikely   
   >>>>>> that they are hand delivered by a Nichiren Shoshu priest.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Also, one is unlikely to be star guest at an after-party and have   
   >>>>>> the close attention of a number of delighted Nip nubiles.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Besides... buying off Ebay is, I suggest, not so likely to have the   
   >>>>>> desired effect on my "peers" at the time. They would have doubted   
   >>>>>> it's legitimacy and thus the whole point would have been   
   >>>>>> undermined.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> did you convince yourself you were sincere at the time?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Didn't need to. I knew my motive was, and still is, sincere.   
   >>>   
   >>> i could be forgiven for questioning. :)   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> You have no idea what it took for him to act so civilized towards you.   
   >> He should be really grateful.   
   >> Still you were way out of line.   
   >   
   >   
   > When one calls others practices into question, one should not be afraid   
   > to speak of ones own, just as openly.   
      
      
   "Is that so?"   
      
   --   
   Firehose should be filtered out as well as those who talk to him regularly   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)