XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: oxtail@nowhere.org   
      
   Evelyn wrote:   
      
   > "oxtail"  wrote in message   
   > news:i496m9$nbc$3@news.eternal-september.org...   
   >> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> "Evelyn"  wrote in message   
   >>>> "Julian"  wrote in message   
   >>>>> On 15/08/2010 16:08, Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >>>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>> "Julian"   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> As for myself, I have only ever "chanted for" something once in   
   >>>>>>>> my life and far from involving anything magic/occult it was a   
   >>>>>>>> purely mundane transaction. In order to obtain a Gohonzon I had   
   >>>>>>>> to demonstrate   
   >>>>>>>> mastery of the Gongyo ceremony.  There was nothing whatsoever   
   >>>>>>>> magical or occult in my performance of the ceremony merely the   
   >>>>>>>> result of the long   
   >>>>>>>> and painful austerity of the assiduous practice that was (for me)   
   >>>>>>>> required   
   >>>>>>>> to master it. Just bloody hard work (and sore knees.)   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> And you make fun of tibetan buddhism?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Julian can speak for himself, but from my side, I can see the   
   >>>>>> humour of what he says. He says that he goes through the motion   
   >>>>>> without any faith in it. Just the bare motions, devoid of any   
   >>>>>> supernatural superstructure to infuse meaning into them. Like many   
   >>>>>> Christian priests and ministers who have lost faith. The part:<>>>>> from involving anything magic/occult it was a purely mundane   
   >>>>>> transaction>>   
   >>>>>>  is very poignant. Also:<>.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> It is also very poignant that you miss his humour.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Now just imagine a follower of the Tibetan religion going though   
   >>>>>> the Tantric motions day after day in such spirit ...   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Went through the motion, not "goes."   
   >>>>> Once I received the Gohonzon it was "game over!"  :)   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Ah then you had possession of the  "preccciooussssss........."   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Am I the only one who thinks it is pretty weird to FAKE a practice   
   >>> meant to be taken sincerely, in order to GET an object?   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> It's never weird for human beings   
   >> to pray to the unknown god   
   >> in whatever mode and for whatever purpose. That's just one way of   
   >> being humble spirituality.   
   >>   
   >   
   > You are more forgiving of such things, than I am Oxtail.   I think it is   
   > insincere, and as such a lie.   
      
      
   Life is a delusion.   
   Let's suddenly wake up soon.   
      
   --   
   Oxtail is not doing what he thinks he is doing here.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)