XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: oxtail@nowhere.org   
      
   syringe nipples wrote:   
      
   > On 16/08/2010 1:30 AM, Evelyn wrote:   
   >> "oxtail"  wrote in message   
   >>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>> "Evelyn"  wrote in message   
   >>>>> "Julian"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>> On 15/08/2010 16:08, Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >>>>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> "Julian"   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> As for myself, I have only ever "chanted for" something once in   
   >>>>>>>>> my life and far from involving anything magic/occult it was a   
   >>>>>>>>> purely mundane transaction. In order to obtain a Gohonzon I had   
   >>>>>>>>> to demonstrate   
   >>>>>>>>> mastery of the Gongyo ceremony. There was nothing whatsoever   
   >>>>>>>>> magical or occult in my performance of the ceremony merely the   
   >>>>>>>>> result of the long   
   >>>>>>>>> and painful austerity of the assiduous practice that was (for   
   >>>>>>>>> me) required   
   >>>>>>>>> to master it. Just bloody hard work (and sore knees.)   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> And you make fun of tibetan buddhism?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Julian can speak for himself, but from my side, I can see the   
   >>>>>>> humour of what he says. He says that he goes through the motion   
   >>>>>>> without any faith in it. Just the bare motions, devoid of any   
   >>>>>>> supernatural superstructure to infuse meaning into them. Like many   
   >>>>>>> Christian priests and ministers who have lost faith. The   
   >>>>>>> part:<>>>>>> mundane transaction>> is very poignant. Also:<>>>>>> work>>.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> It is also very poignant that you miss his humour.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Now just imagine a follower of the Tibetan religion going though   
   >>>>>>> the Tantric motions day after day in such spirit ...   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Went through the motion, not "goes."   
   >>>>>> Once I received the Gohonzon it was "game over!" :)   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Ah then you had possession of the "preccciooussssss........."   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Am I the only one who thinks it is pretty weird to FAKE a practice   
   >>>> meant to be taken sincerely, in order to GET an object?   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> It's never weird for human beings   
   >>> to pray to the unknown god   
   >>> in whatever mode and for whatever purpose. That's just one way of   
   >>> being humble spirituality.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> You are more forgiving of such things, than I am Oxtail. I think it is   
   >> insincere, and as such a lie.   
   >>   
   >>   
   > he's not forgiving he's bowing.   
      
      
   That would be even better.   
   But I can't say I'm that humble.   
      
   --   
   Oxtail is not doing what he thinks he is doing here.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)