XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: oxtail@nowhere.org   
      
   syringe nipples wrote:   
      
   > On 16/08/2010 3:05 AM, oxtail wrote:   
   >> syringe nipples wrote:   
   >>> On 16/08/2010 1:30 AM, Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>> "oxtail"  wrote in message   
   >>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>> "Evelyn"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>> "Julian"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>> On 15/08/2010 16:08, Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> "Julian"   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> As for myself, I have only ever "chanted for" something once   
   >>>>>>>>>>> in my life and far from involving anything magic/occult it was   
   >>>>>>>>>>> a purely mundane transaction. In order to obtain a Gohonzon I   
   >>>>>>>>>>> had to demonstrate   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mastery of the Gongyo ceremony. There was nothing whatsoever   
   >>>>>>>>>>> magical or occult in my performance of the ceremony merely the   
   >>>>>>>>>>> result of the long   
   >>>>>>>>>>> and painful austerity of the assiduous practice that was (for   
   >>>>>>>>>>> me) required   
   >>>>>>>>>>> to master it. Just bloody hard work (and sore knees.)   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> And you make fun of tibetan buddhism?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Julian can speak for himself, but from my side, I can see the   
   >>>>>>>>> humour of what he says. He says that he goes through the motion   
   >>>>>>>>> without any faith in it. Just the bare motions, devoid of any   
   >>>>>>>>> supernatural superstructure to infuse meaning into them. Like   
   >>>>>>>>> many Christian priests and ministers who have lost faith. The   
   >>>>>>>>> part:<>>>>>>>> mundane transaction>>  is very poignant. Also:<>>>>>>>> work>>.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> It is also very poignant that you miss his humour.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Now just imagine a follower of the Tibetan religion going though   
   >>>>>>>>> the Tantric motions day after day in such spirit ...   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Went through the motion, not "goes."   
   >>>>>>>> Once I received the Gohonzon it was "game over!" :)   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Ah then you had possession of the "preccciooussssss........."   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Am I the only one who thinks it is pretty weird to FAKE a practice   
   >>>>>> meant to be taken sincerely, in order to GET an object?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> It's never weird for human beings   
   >>>>> to pray to the unknown god   
   >>>>> in whatever mode and for whatever purpose. That's just one way of   
   >>>>> being humble spirituality.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>> You are more forgiving of such things, than I am Oxtail. I think it   
   >>>> is insincere, and as such a lie.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>> he's not forgiving he's bowing.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> That would be even better.   
   >> But I can't say I'm that humble.   
   >>   
   >>   
   > i saw you leaving that position to try and put me in mine.   
      
      
   Breathe deep.   
   Think deep.   
   Be empty.   
      
   --   
   Oxtail is not doing what he thinks he is doing here.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)