f76812c3
XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen
XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
From: oxtail@nowhere.org
Jigme Dorje wrote:
> On Aug 15, 10:17 am, oxtail wrote:
>> zenworm wrote:
>> > On Aug 14, 9:11 pm, oxtail wrote:
>> >> Jigme Dorje wrote:
>> >> > On Aug 14, 8:17 pm, oxtail wrote:
>> >> >> Jigme Dorje wrote:
>> >> >> > On Aug 14, 6:14 pm, oxtail wrote:
>> >> >> >> Evelyn wrote:
>> >> >> >> > "oxtail" wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >> Tang Huyen wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>> tri cycle wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> just seeing is ok.
>>
>> >> >> >> >>> According to Norbu, just seeing and no judging is the
>> >> >> >> >>> alpha and omega of Buddhism.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> There must be something more in what he meant, unless he
>> >> >> >> >> was trying to become an insect.
>>
>> >> >> >> > Oxtail, we don't know much about what insects think.......
>>
>> >> >> >> I'm assuming that
>> >> >> >> they are not capable of being judgmental.
>>
>> >> >> > There is falling below thought and rising above it. There is
>> >> >> > consciousness grounded in being, as in plants, animals, stones
>> >> >> > and insects,
>> >> >> > and consciousness becoming aware of itself as being.
>> >> >> > Consciousness becomes aware of itself
>>
>> >> >> Even stones?
>> >> >> What does it mean for all sentient beings to have the
>> >> >> Buddha-nature?
>>
>> >> > Of course stones. Every form that has an identity has
>> >> > consciousness. They are all composed of form and space. They are
>> >> > all filled with energy and living, sentient things, although their
>> >> > function may not be apparent to us.
>>
>> >> > Nietzsche's old quip that "god is dead" is interesting, since we
>> >> > have killed off all nature, by objectifying it, seeing it as a
>> >> > collection of objects with varying assigned values in accordance
>> >> > with the degree of our cravings. We are in a flat land. Mountains
>> >> > are just mountains.
>>
>> >> > In fact, these forms are no more than half the picture. Light can
>> >> > be seen as a particle or as a wave. Which is it? Sentient beings
>> >> > are like this. All the things of nature is deeply rooted in being.
>> >> > They are inseparable from being.
>>
>> >> You must be confusing consciousness with something else.
>>
>> > there is nothing else
>>
>> > ^~
>>
>> It's not the case that
>> everything has consciousness,
>> just because everything is made up by the mind.
>>
>
> Sorry to have unskillfully diverted the discussion in the direction of
> conceptual distinctions. My intent was to point to "the other shore" as
> the Diamond Sutra" describes the territory beyond thought forms.
>
> It is a sorry task to attempt to put it into words. This may be why the
> Buddha often observed skillful silence, describing "suchness" in
> negative terms, that is, saying what it is not, rather than attempting
> to shape it into words. Another problem with verbosity is that it runs
> the risk of stealing from people who are making the effort to seek it
> themselves. We must all cut our own paths to direct experience, and
> overly descriptive words can result in conceptual rigidity that can
> become just another impediment.
>
> I am glad to discuss my own experience, but have to be cognizant of the
> potential to create distracting controversies as the mind attempts to
> grasp a tentatively phrased descriptive phrase.
>
> I am gratified however, that my unskilled words do not cause much more
> than a shrug, which is a testament to you guys and your practice.
IMHO it helps to pretend to write poetry.
--
Oxtail is not doing what he thinks he is doing here.
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