XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: firehose@everywhere.com   
      
   Julian wrote:   
      
   > On 16/08/2010 05:28, halfawake wrote:   
   >> Julian wrote:   
   >>> On 15/08/2010 03:14, halfawake wrote:   
   >>>> My points in sum:   
   >>>> 1/ The Lotus Sutra is full of occult, supernatural, magical formulas,   
   >>>> talismans, events, recountings and magical personae. It is highly   
   >>>> focused on the magical power of the Sutra itself.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> That false impression has been dealt with in other posts where you   
   >>> have been referred to the translators introduction.   
   >>>   
   >>>> 2/ The idea that chanting the name of the Sutra can itself bestow   
   >>>> enlightenment is an exercise in purely occult, magical thinking.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>> 3/ It is hypocritical to engage in this type of practice and   
   >>>> criticize the Tibetan tradition for being "occult." What's the   
   >>>> difference?   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> I am not aware of anyone here doing that. Perhaps some were doing it   
   >>> during my 5 year sabbatical but I can't be bothered to trawl the   
   >>> archives to identify them.   
   >>   
   >> In the recent exchange about Evelyn, the charge was hurled at her that   
   >> she was involved in occult-practice-ridden Tibetan Buddhism, and thus   
   >> should not be given much account. I believe it was you that made that   
   >> comment. You have also commented on the supposed occult practices of   
   >> Tibetan Buddhism in the recent past.   
   >>   
   >> I'm too inept to look it up though. I'm terrible at re-finding   
   >> google-group references most of the time.   
   >   
   > Not a particularly elegant swerve there, Robert. It is no secret that I   
   > find Tibetanistas contemptible and occult divination etcetera as heinous   
   > when being passed off as even remotely legitimate Buddhist practice but   
   > I defy you or anyone to produce evidence that I have performed or   
   > advocated (without sarcasm) any occult or magical practices.   
   >   
   >   
   >>> You will not find many "nichirenites" doing that since, on the whole,   
   >>> they are far too occupied in their interminable inter-cine warfare to   
   >>> devote a decent amount of time to Shakabuku.   
   >>>   
   >>> As for myself, I have only ever "chanted for" something once in my   
   >>> life and far from involving anything magic/occult it was a purely   
   >>> mundane transaction. In order to obtain a Gohonzon I had to   
   >>> demonstrate mastery of the Gongyo ceremony. There was nothing   
   >>> whatsoever magical or occult in my performance of the ceremony merely   
   >>> the result of the long and painful austerity of the assiduous practice   
   >>> that was (for me) required   
   >>> to master it. Just bloody hard work (and sore knees.)   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >> Okay. Thanks for sharing that.   
   >   
   > And thank you for starting to read the Lotus for as the Sutra itself   
   > states that if I can propagate even a single character to someone I am   
   > assured of reaching the state of non regression in the Land of Tranquil   
   > Light   
   > (or some such) so if you read a verse, chapter or the whole thing I'll   
   > probably get the whole72 thousand virgin thing and an Aston Martin DB9.   
      
      
   What a magic!   
      
   --   
   Firehose should be filtered out as well as those who talk to him regularly   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)