XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: epsteinrob@yahoo.com   
      
   syringe nipples wrote:   
      
   > On 16/08/2010 12:00 PM, halfawake wrote:   
   >   
   >> tri cycle wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 15/08/2010 9:18 AM, halfawake wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> tri cycle wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 14/08/2010 4:14 PM, halfawake wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> Julian wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 12/08/2010 18:21, DT wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> "DT"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>> news:i418a202llk@news3.newsguy.com...   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> "Julian"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>>> news:i40qsf$hbn$1@news.eternal-september.org...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/08/2010 13:10, Jigme Dorje wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 12, 5:18 am, Julian wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/08/2010 08:18, halfawake wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Julian wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2010 11:39, Catawumpus wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halfawake:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fake conversation is between you and your ass. Hope   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're having a   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fake conversation is the one Evelyn openly admitted to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when she denied she was offering a real one. Which makes   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfect sense in light of all the fake accusations she's   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tossed.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are not fake. They are real accusations but   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubstantiated.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't expect anything else after the Occultists, and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the so   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Korean Zen" and Tibetanista teachers, have so profoundly   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twisted her   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> melon,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you really want to get occult, try the assertions of the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lotus Sutra,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> largely based on supernaturalism and magical thinking   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are keen and verbose in seeking evidence with respect to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tibetan foetid rascalities before you'll cease to deny such   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Yes, proving a negative was never my strong suit, since it is   
   >>>>>> impossible. One doesn't take assertions that have no evidence and   
   >>>>>> find   
   >>>>>> evidence to refute it. I challenge you to find evidence that there   
   >>>>>> is n   
   >>>>>> such thing as a unicorn. Prove it. You can't. If you assert that the   
   >>>>>> Tibetan lamas have done something you have to provide the evidence,   
   >>>>>> and   
   >>>>>> it has to be real evidence or it is pure bullshit. That won't stop   
   >>>>>> you   
   >>>>>> from saying it is true over and over again will it? Asserting   
   >>>>>> things to   
   >>>>>> exist that have no evidence is a strength of yours and other   
   >>>>>> anti-Tibetan ideologues. You find a book with unsubstantiated   
   >>>>>> assertions   
   >>>>>> and use it as a citation, or a picture that is supposedly of skin   
   >>>>>> taken   
   >>>>>> from living people with no evidence to support it and then go on   
   >>>>>> about   
   >>>>>> it as if it were proven. And that is the worst kind of propaganda. If   
   >>>>>> you said that Romanians skinned their babies alive I'd have the same   
   >>>>>> reaction. I don't care if it's about Tibetans or people from Chicago.   
   >>>>>> I'm not a fan of malicious propaganda.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so presumeably you must have copious evidence that the Lotus   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sutra   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is "largely based on supernaturalism and magical thinking"   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and not on the assiduous practice and study of Buddhism.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please share it.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> When I get a chance I may do that. Meanwhile, if you think that the   
   >>>>>> whole setup of the Lotus Sutra, asserting the unending lineage of   
   >>>>>> Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, most of them never heard of in any other   
   >>>>>> Theravadin or Mahayana record before or after, speaking of their   
   >>>>>> occult,   
   >>>>>> magical and supernatural doings, and how the sutra itself has myriad   
   >>>>>> magical powers, shifting the emphasis from personal enlightenment   
   >>>>>> through understanding to the magical thinking of being graced with   
   >>>>>> enlightenment by the mystical power of the sutra itself, is not an   
   >>>>>> exercise in magical thinking and supernaturalism of the highest   
   >>>>>> order,   
   >>>>>> then that's fine. If you literally accept all of that on faith,   
   >>>>>> then you   
   >>>>>> are a religious worshipper, which is also fine. And if you think the   
   >>>>>> same magical thinking that the repeated chanting of the name of the   
   >>>>>> lotus sutra, with or without any understanding of the kind that   
   >>>>>> characterizes the meditative tradition of Buddhism, is not an   
   >>>>>> exercise   
   >>>>>> in occultism and magical thinking, then that is fine too, but it   
   >>>>>> seems   
   >>>>>> pretty obvious that it is ordinary mantra meditation of the kind   
   >>>>>> believed in by Hindus more than Buddhists. Go ahead and say   
   >>>>>> whatever you   
   >>>>>> like about it. I'm not even saying it doesn't work. What I am   
   >>>>>> saying is   
   >>>>>> that it is rankly hypocritical to believe in that kind of magical   
   >>>>>> thinking and accuse Tibetan Buddhism of being overly occult! What's   
   >>>>>> the   
   >>>>>> difference?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> If the Lotus Sutra has great content and teaching in it, it is not in   
   >>>>>> the array of magical Buddhas and Bodhisattvas sitting on high making   
   >>>>>> pronouncements about the magical power of the sutra itself, which   
   >>>>>> turns   
   >>>>>> the Buddhist teaching into a talisman or a magical object, a   
   >>>>>> wish-fulfilling gem, rather than an exercise in awakening.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ps.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not long since you admitted that you had never read   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Lotus Sutra and you promised to do so...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more vacuous verbosity I'm prepared to wager.-   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)