XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen
XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
From: evelyn.ruut@gmail.com
"niunian" wrote in message
news:889m661jgq8bvokeujm71uaa1mlm2m2vng@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Jigme Dorje
> wrote:
>
>>On Aug 17, 2:36?pm, niunian wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:05:14 -0700 (PDT), Jigme Dorje
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >On Aug 17, 1:52?pm, oxtail wrote:
>>> >> Hollywood Lee wrote:
>>> >> > On 8/17/2010 7:05 AM, Jigme Dorje wrote:
>>> >> >> On Aug 17, 8:43 am, Hollywood Lee ?wrote:
>>> >> >>> On 8/17/2010 6:25 AM, Jigme Dorje wrote:
>>>
>>> >> >>>> I was joking about Cat, of course. But there are also questions
>>> >> >>>> that
>>> >> >>>> the mind poses about formlessness that, obviously, cannot be
>>> >> >>>> answered
>>> >> >>>> by the mind that poses them. ?This is why people who live in the
>>> >> >>>> mind
>>> >> >>>> are continuously frustrated and, conversely, always surefire
>>> >> >>>> certain
>>> >> >>>> about some position or other.
>>>
>>> >> >>> Are you certain about that position? ?And is it really certain
>>> >> >>> and
>>> >> >>> obvious that questions about formlessness cannot be answered by
>>> >> >>> the
>>> >> >>> mind that poses them?
>>>
>>> >> >> The function of mind is to seek knowledge, which is, essentially
>>> >> >> putting a label on things and accumulating them, ie. objectifying
>>> >> >> them.
>>> >> >> ?But when you scratch the surface of the concept that the mind has
>>> >> >> given form to, it is no more than a nebulous idea, a mere thought
>>> >> >> form,
>>> >> >> and there is no real experience of that to which it points.
>>>
>>> >> > Or so you think.
>>>
>>> >> >> A question like "what is formlessness" simply points to something
>>> >> >> beyond the mind's comprehension. The mind giving it a definition
>>> >> >> is
>>> >> >> short circuiting the process of following what points beyond mind.
>>>
>>> >> > Again with the concepts and ideas.
>>>
>>> >> >>> It seems to me that these claims simply draw a veil of mystery
>>> >> >>> over
>>> >> >>> these ideas, elevating them up as some venerated concepts instead
>>> >> >>> of
>>> >> >>> just letting them go or helping dissolve them along with all our
>>> >> >>> other
>>> >> >>> mental fashionings.
>>>
>>> >> >> Ah, but the intent is just the opposite. As long as the mind can
>>> >> >> get a
>>> >> >> hold of something, it can hoplessly muddle it up, creating
>>> >> >> concepts of
>>> >> >> it and further confusion. As you say, letting go helps them
>>> >> >> dissolve as
>>> >> >> mental fashionings do. Where do ideas originate? And where do they
>>> >> >> go?
>>> >> >> They either are allowed to dissipate like a fragment of a cloud,
>>> >> >> or you
>>> >> >> can gather them up into a larger cloud that creates havoc.
>>>
>>> >> > I don't mean this in a debating/critical way as if I'm going to
>>> >> > convince
>>> >> > you of this. ?It's just my observation of how talk of what you
>>> >> > admit you
>>> >> > can't talk about sounds like to me. ?It seems that the sentence
>>> >> > about
>>> >> > how we can't talk about something is always followed by pages of
>>> >> > looptyloop word salads.
>>>
>>> >> I don't know much
>>> >> but I know I don't know.
>>>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Oxtail is not doing what he thinks he is doing here.- Hide quoted
>>> >> text -
>>>
>>> >I don't know more than you don't...
>>>
>>> Why is that a good thing?
>>
>>I don't know.
>
> Do you know you are being stupid?
He's not being stupid, you are because you don't understand the point of
their discussion.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
In the stony fastness of the mountains there is a strange market, where one
may barter the vortex of life for boundless bliss. - Milarepa
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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