XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: evelyn.ruut@gmail.com   
      
   "oxtail"  wrote in message   
   news:i4ei91$luh$8@news.eternal-september.org...   
   > Hollywood Lee wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 8/17/2010 7:05 AM, Jigme Dorje wrote:   
   >>> On Aug 17, 8:43 am, Hollywood Lee  wrote:   
   >>>> On 8/17/2010 6:25 AM, Jigme Dorje wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> I was joking about Cat, of course. But there are also questions that   
   >>>>> the mind poses about formlessness that, obviously, cannot be answered   
   >>>>> by the mind that poses them.  This is why people who live in the mind   
   >>>>> are continuously frustrated and, conversely, always surefire certain   
   >>>>> about some position or other.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Are you certain about that position?  And is it really certain and   
   >>>> obvious that questions about formlessness cannot be answered by the   
   >>>> mind that poses them?   
   >>>   
   >>> The function of mind is to seek knowledge, which is, essentially   
   >>> putting a label on things and accumulating them, ie. objectifying them.   
   >>>  But when you scratch the surface of the concept that the mind has   
   >>> given form to, it is no more than a nebulous idea, a mere thought form,   
   >>> and there is no real experience of that to which it points.   
   >>   
   >> Or so you think.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>> A question like "what is formlessness" simply points to something   
   >>> beyond the mind's comprehension. The mind giving it a definition is   
   >>> short circuiting the process of following what points beyond mind.   
   >>   
   >> Again with the concepts and ideas.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>> It seems to me that these claims simply draw a veil of mystery over   
   >>>> these ideas, elevating them up as some venerated concepts instead of   
   >>>> just letting them go or helping dissolve them along with all our other   
   >>>> mental fashionings.   
   >>>   
   >>> Ah, but the intent is just the opposite. As long as the mind can get a   
   >>> hold of something, it can hoplessly muddle it up, creating concepts of   
   >>> it and further confusion. As you say, letting go helps them dissolve as   
   >>> mental fashionings do. Where do ideas originate? And where do they go?   
   >>> They either are allowed to dissipate like a fragment of a cloud, or you   
   >>> can gather them up into a larger cloud that creates havoc.   
   >>   
   >> I don't mean this in a debating/critical way as if I'm going to convince   
   >> you of this.  It's just my observation of how talk of what you admit you   
   >> can't talk about sounds like to me.  It seems that the sentence about   
   >> how we can't talk about something is always followed by pages of   
   >> looptyloop word salads.   
   >   
   >   
   > I don't know much   
   > but I know I don't know.   
   >   
      
      
   "Don't know" mind.......   
   --   
   Best Regards,   
   Evelyn   
      
   In the stony fastness of the mountains there is a strange market, where one   
   may barter the vortex of life for boundless bliss.  – Milarepa   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)