XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen
XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
From: evelyn.ruut@gmail.com
"niunian" wrote in message
news:mhjo66trgb8e0cetr9aej8675tmvaodnja@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:12:53 -0400, "Evelyn"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"niunian" wrote in message
>>news:qfeo66puhi05r9trh0nk8sfg752rvf10gg@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 07:12:12 -0400, "Evelyn"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"niunian" wrote in message
>>>>news:10cm66hrljc29g2ukm81s3eiv44hahht8b@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:18:21 -0400, "Evelyn"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"niunian" wrote in message
>>>>>>news:889m661jgq8bvokeujm71uaa1mlm2m2vng@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Jigme Dorje
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Aug 17, 2:36?pm, niunian wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:05:14 -0700 (PDT), Jigme Dorje
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >On Aug 17, 1:52?pm, oxtail wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> Hollywood Lee wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> > On 8/17/2010 7:05 AM, Jigme Dorje wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >> On Aug 17, 8:43 am, Hollywood Lee
>>>>>>>>> >> >> ?wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> On 8/17/2010 6:25 AM, Jigme Dorje wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> I was joking about Cat, of course. But there are also
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> questions
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> that
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> the mind poses about formlessness that, obviously, cannot
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> answered
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> by the mind that poses them. ?This is why people who live
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> in
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> mind
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> are continuously frustrated and, conversely, always
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> surefire
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> certain
>>>>>>>>> >> >>>> about some position or other.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> Are you certain about that position? ?And is it really
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> certain
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> and
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> obvious that questions about formlessness cannot be
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> answered
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> by
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> the
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> mind that poses them?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> The function of mind is to seek knowledge, which is,
>>>>>>>>> >> >> essentially
>>>>>>>>> >> >> putting a label on things and accumulating them, ie.
>>>>>>>>> >> >> objectifying
>>>>>>>>> >> >> them.
>>>>>>>>> >> >> ?But when you scratch the surface of the concept that the
>>>>>>>>> >> >> mind
>>>>>>>>> >> >> has
>>>>>>>>> >> >> given form to, it is no more than a nebulous idea, a mere
>>>>>>>>> >> >> thought
>>>>>>>>> >> >> form,
>>>>>>>>> >> >> and there is no real experience of that to which it points.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> > Or so you think.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> A question like "what is formlessness" simply points to
>>>>>>>>> >> >> something
>>>>>>>>> >> >> beyond the mind's comprehension. The mind giving it a
>>>>>>>>> >> >> definition
>>>>>>>>> >> >> is
>>>>>>>>> >> >> short circuiting the process of following what points beyond
>>>>>>>>> >> >> mind.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> > Again with the concepts and ideas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> It seems to me that these claims simply draw a veil of
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> mystery
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> over
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> these ideas, elevating them up as some venerated concepts
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> instead
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> of
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> just letting them go or helping dissolve them along with
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> all
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> our
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> other
>>>>>>>>> >> >>> mental fashionings.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> Ah, but the intent is just the opposite. As long as the mind
>>>>>>>>> >> >> can
>>>>>>>>> >> >> get a
>>>>>>>>> >> >> hold of something, it can hoplessly muddle it up, creating
>>>>>>>>> >> >> concepts of
>>>>>>>>> >> >> it and further confusion. As you say, letting go helps them
>>>>>>>>> >> >> dissolve as
>>>>>>>>> >> >> mental fashionings do. Where do ideas originate? And where
>>>>>>>>> >> >> do
>>>>>>>>> >> >> they
>>>>>>>>> >> >> go?
>>>>>>>>> >> >> They either are allowed to dissipate like a fragment of a
>>>>>>>>> >> >> cloud,
>>>>>>>>> >> >> or you
>>>>>>>>> >> >> can gather them up into a larger cloud that creates havoc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> > I don't mean this in a debating/critical way as if I'm going
>>>>>>>>> >> > to
>>>>>>>>> >> > convince
>>>>>>>>> >> > you of this. ?It's just my observation of how talk of what
>>>>>>>>> >> > you
>>>>>>>>> >> > admit you
>>>>>>>>> >> > can't talk about sounds like to me. ?It seems that the
>>>>>>>>> >> > sentence
>>>>>>>>> >> > about
>>>>>>>>> >> > how we can't talk about something is always followed by pages
>>>>>>>>> >> > of
>>>>>>>>> >> > looptyloop word salads.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> I don't know much
>>>>>>>>> >> but I know I don't know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>>> >> Oxtail is not doing what he thinks he is doing here.- Hide
>>>>>>>>> >> quoted
>>>>>>>>> >> text -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >I don't know more than you don't...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why is that a good thing?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I don't know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you know you are being stupid?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He's not being stupid, you are because you don't understand the point
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>their discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I curse the point of their discussion. It is a stupid point.
>>>>
>>>>You don't need to pretend here, and you don't need to put others down.
>>>>Just
>>>>skip what you don't understand without all the criticism. Give
>>>>yourself
>>>>time to figure it out.
>>>
>>> It would be better if you practice your own advice to skip what you
>>> have no clue which is what I'm doing overall in general.
>>
>>
>>You are so obvious it is the easiest thing in the world to figure out what
>>you are doing! LOL
>
> As far as I can see, you are still the clueless idiot since you came
> here. You have shown nothing of intelligence so far.
And you have shown none either, so I am in good company.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
In the stony fastness of the mountains there is a strange market, where one
may barter the vortex of life for boundless bliss. - Milarepa
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