XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: kimmerian@fastmail.fm   
      
   halfawake :   
      
   > But almost none of them do, as I have said repeatedly.  It doesn't   
      
        Wriggling again, little eel?  You denied that arahants are   
   allowed to kill themselves and claimed they never did (with   
   one exception due to severe illness), demanding evidence to the   
   contrary.  O.k.  I've provided it three times over:  an   
   explanation of the principle ("he may end his life how and when   
   he will" because his "kamma is no longer operative") along   
   with two examples:  Kamo no Chomei's assertion that a "pacified   
   heart" is needed for liberation through suicide and the   
   self-immolation of the Bodhisattva Sarvasattvapriyadarsana once   
   he's achieved full consciousness in the Lotus Sutra:  an   
   action eight Buddhas label "the most sublime worship of the law."   
      
   > matter if there are one, two or three exceptions - there are hardly any.   
      
        Matters a good deal.  You imagined a rule against arahants   
   killing themselves and insisted there that was only one   
   particular exception (namely an arahant suffering from a severe   
   illness).  You were wrong on both counts:  there's no such   
   rule (arahants are allowed to kill themselvea) and in the Lotus   
   Sutra the Bodhisattva Sarvasattvapriyadarsana not only   
   immolates his body but receives praise from the Buddhas for his   
   "sublime worship of the law."   
      
   > If life is the main constituent and cause of suffering, why don't many   
   > others leave early?  You have refused to answer this, because it   
      
        Oh, look:  you're lying again.  I've answered twice, maybe   
   more.  To repeat, arahants stick around in order to teach   
   others.  Simple and obvious.  You've studied Buddhism for years   
   w/out learning the basics.   
      
   > But they generally don't.   
      
        But nothing, my wriggling little friend.  According to you   
   arahants aren't allowed to kill themselves and furthermore   
   never did (with only a single, specific exception due to severe   
   illness).  You were mistaken on both counts:  arahants are   
   permitted to kill themselves -- the ceasing of kamma, "pacified   
   hearts," etc. -- and in the Lotus Sutra the Bodhisattva   
   Sarvasattvapriyadarsana not only immolates himself but receives   
   high praise from the eight Buddhas who call his action "the   
   most sublime worship of the law."  So you were wrong about both   
   principle and practice.   
      
   -- Catawumpus   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)