XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: epsteinrob@yahoo.com   
      
   Catawumpus wrote:   
      
   > Jigme Dorje :   
   >   
   >   
   >>>Hey, none of this is directed to you personally.   
   >   
   >   
   >      Let's check.  You referred to me by name and claimed I was   
   > wrong about Buddhism.  So yeah, this was directed to me   
   > personally.  But you failed to address what I said, so you were   
   > unable to show the error you said I made.  So happens the   
   > mistake was yours:  you ignorantly insisted that "Buddhism does   
   > not comment negatively on life here," an obvious falsehood   
   > since teachings like the Four Noble Truths cast a very critical   
   > eye on worldly existence.   
   >   
   >   
   >>I understand   
   >   
   >   
   >      You're very attached to the misunderstanding summarized by   
   > your claim "Buddhism does not comment negatively on life   
   > here."  Plainly untrue.  The Four Noble Truths describe life as   
   > suffering and advise against rebirth.   
      
   Not true.  The 4 NT advise against the craving that leads to rebirth.   
   Once the craving and delusion it is based on are gone, one is free to   
   show up as a Bodhisattva or not.  Buddha would not advise against an   
   enlightened one undergoing rebirth.  They have freedom to come and go as   
   they please.   
      
      The Lotus Sutra   
   > compares this world with a burning house.  In the Padhana Sutta   
   > Gotama says "I spit on my life," or "Shame on life here in   
   > this world!"  Etc., etc.  Buddhism does precisely what you deny.   
      
   He also talks about the joy of seclusion, the pleasure of meditation and   
   the jhanas as a "pleasant abiding in the here and now."  You can choose   
   nihilism as you do, or you can choose the middle path as Buddha did,   
   both advising against a deluded suffering life, and at the same time   
   acknowledging our potential to lead a sane life free of clinging and   
   undue suffering, even while still here in samsara.  You only emphasize   
   cessation, because it fits your interpretation of reality.   
      
   >   
   >   
   >>>The illusory entity I am discussing is   
   >   
   >   
   >      The "illusory entity" you discussed sounded very much like   
   > you:  can't communicate meaningfully -- your dogmatism   
   > cripples you -- relies upon "a sense of specialness, separation   
   > and superiority" (you depend on the idea that you're   
   > especially awakened), and requires others to be wrong:  exactly   
   > the case, since you began this part of the dialogue by   
   > insisting I was mistaken about Buddhism, though you didn't give   
   > more than your say-so.   
   >   
   >   
   >>>In the world of thought forms and conceptual-based arguments,  I have   
   >>>already ceded all to you; you may be lord of that realm if you wish.   
   >   
   >   
   >      No, you made up some argument that you attributed to me in   
   > order to claim I screwed up, then pretended you were   
   > referring to something else.  The same kind of idiocy you apply   
   > to Buddhism.   
   >   
   > Nobody in Particular :   
   >   
   >   
   >>You're talking way over his head, conceptual-based arguments is all he   
   >>understands.   
   >   
   >   
   >      Whenever I explain Jigme's misunderstandings, you yap like   
   > a little dog.   
      
   And you keep chewing on the same nihilistic bone over and over again   
   like the bulldog you are.   
      
   Robert   
      
   - - - - - - -   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)