XPost: alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: epsteinrob@yahoo.com   
      
   doctor bitch wrote:   
      
   > On 23/07/2010 3:42 AM, Evelyn wrote:   
   >   
   >>   
   >> "firehose"  wrote in message   
   >> news:i29v4q$vpb$4@news.eternal-september.org...   
   >>   
   >>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> "Nobody in Particular"  wrote in message   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> "Nobody in Particular"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Jigme Dorje wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 4:43 pm, "Evelyn"  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> "firehose"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>> > Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> >> "firehose"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>> >>> Catawumpus wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> Jigme Dorje :   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> Analytically speaking, religions can also be analyzed along   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> an entirely different axis: the extent to which one is   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> literal in interpretation. The more literal the   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> interpretation, the dumber, more uni-dimensional and   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> mind-limited the result. On the other end of the spectrum   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> lies the use of words as "pointers." These are more   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> likely to be the testimony of the experience the deeper   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> levels by very aware individuals. They might be embellished   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> with mythology, and subject to biases and inaccuracies in   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> their production as a sanctioned body of work. But one   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> recognizes the experience of awakening and its results   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>>> regardless of how poorly it might be presented.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> You claim to not have dogma and opinions, but here you are   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> dogmatically opinionating on the topic of literal   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> interpretations.   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> You argue against making discriminations, and yet you're   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> distinguishing literal interpretations from figurative ones,   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> which   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> you like much more. So much for walking the walk.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> [big snip]   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> To be clear, I'm not making myself your opposite number by   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> arguing literal readings are always valid and figurative   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> interpretations are always deceitful. I'm simply showing a   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> few of   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> the ways in which metaphorical or allegorical understandings   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> have been used to push scripture into conformity with   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> doctrine: the same   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> procedure that you rely on when confronted by items in   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> conflict with   
   >>>>>>>>> >>>> your preferred conclusions.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> >>> There are many ways to read someone.   
   >>>>>>>>> >>> We don't have to read him argumentatively, when he expects to   
   >>>>>>>>> >>> be read   
   >>>>>>>>> >>> compassionately.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> >> Firehose, Jigme is usually very compassionate.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> > We all are.   
   >>>>>>>>> > Especially when reading our own writings. ;-)   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> > BTW he does not appear to be as fragile as Tang is trying to   
   >>>>>>>>> make   
   >>>>>>>>> > him out to be.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> He isn't. Tang has always worked very hard at creating a   
   >>>>>>>>> fictional Jigme who never really existed. Nobody has ever been   
   >>>>>>>>> able to convince   
   >>>>>>>>> him that this is a crazy assumption based on nothing.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> --   
   >>>>>>>>> Best Regards,   
   >>>>>>>>> Evelyn   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> In the stony fastness of the mountains there is a strange market,   
   >>>>>>>>> where   
   >>>>>>>>> one may barter the vortex of life for boundless bliss. – Milarepa-   
   >>>>>>>>> Hide quoted text -   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> And in fact, isn't that what we all do?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> It brings to mind Tolle's account of observing a lady talking to   
   >>>>>>>> herself in public - carrying on an internal dialogue about all the   
   >>>>>>>> wrongs that had been done her. As he thought over her predicament   
   >>>>>>>> it occurred to him - isn't this what I'm doing too within my mind   
   >>>>>>>> all day long, day in, day out? How can we find peace, quiet the   
   >>>>>>>> mind sufficiently to enter the pureness of the moment when we are   
   >>>>>>>> constantly carrying on internal dialogues, entertaining voices of   
   >>>>>>>> discontent?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Instead of letting the voices run us, we can just observe the   
   >>>>>>>> mental   
   >>>>>>>> fermentations without judgement, and in stepping outside of the   
   >>>>>>>> din,   
   >>>>>>>> the observer is experienced as true being.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Whoever thought awakening could be so easy?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> I've heard that from several people, how easy that is. So why is it   
   >>>>>>> so hard for most of us?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> We are complicated beings, and we are rather attached to our idea of   
   >>>>>> ourselves. Kalu Rinpoche said the following:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> "There is nothing to be gained, nothing to be found which is not   
   >>>>>> there   
   >>>>>> already.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Truth is so simple, Buddhahood is so simple, Bodhicitta is so simple.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Truth is here, even here in this very cell. Truth is in you. The   
   >>>>>> silence,   
   >>>>>> the sunyata is in you. You are the silence, you are the truth; you   
   >>>>>> are the   
   >>>>>> Buddha. It is here at this moment, so simple and so near. Yet we   
   >>>>>> make it   
   >>>>>> so distant when it is so near, so complicated when it is so simple.   
   >>>>>> Do you know what it is like to be ready to set out, to be at the   
   >>>>>> roadside and   
   >>>>>> beside your motorcar, but to have lost the way?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> You are the Buddha.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Then why do you not feel it? Why do you not know it? Because there   
   >>>>>> is a veil in the way, attachment to appearances, the belief that you   
   >>>>>> are not the   
   >>>>>> Buddha, that you are a separate individual, (an atma). If you cannot   
   >>>>>> remove this veil wholly and at once, then you must dissolve it little   
   >>>>>> by little.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> It is because we have made what is simple so complicated, and what is   
   >>>>>> near   
   >>>>>> so distant, that such complex exercises, mandalas, tantric   
   >>>>>> meditation,   
   >>>>>> the   
   >>>>>> creation of mental images, yoga and so on are necessary. A complex   
   >>>>>> discipline is necessary in order to deal with all the aspects of the   
   >>>>>> human   
   >>>>>> being, all the aspects of that barrier which we have set up   
   >>>>>> between us   
   >>>>>> and   
   >>>>>> the truth.   
   >>>>>>   
      
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