XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen
XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
From: kimmerian@fastmail.fm
halfawake :
> Just to summarize in a concrete way: The reality of the 4 noble truths
The Four Noble Truths and related teachings run counter to
Jigme's assertion "Buddhism does not comment negatively on
life here" and his claim it doesn't make any critical judgments.
Truth is Buddhism often disparages worldly existence: a
scandal to Jigme and other worldlings, but old news to everyone
else.
> The reality of the 4 noble truths was preached for the unenlightened.
According to the scriptures, the Buddha preached the truth
of _dukkha_ after his awakening. Nothing in the
Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta suggests he was just kidding, Rob's
wishes notwithstanding.
> The enlightened have gone beyond suffering
Or so Rob says. But the Sakalika Sutta insists the Buddha
had excruciating pain when his foot was pierced by a
rock-shard; he's praised for bearing up so well. I know
better than to close read a translation -- still, he isn't said
to escape, suppress, or transcend the experience, only to
endure his feelings. So in that account he suffers _after_ his
awakening.
Also notice he chooses death over rebirth (and over living
until the end of the aeon, his option as Tathagata), once
again rejecting life. Asvaghosa's _Buddhacarita_ describes him
saying life is a sickness and death its cure: part of his
final words before entering nirvana. "When the light of wisdom
has dispelled the darkness of ignorance, when all existence
has been seen as without substance, peace ensues. When life
draws to an end, it seems at last to cure a long sickness.
Everything whether stationary or movable, is bound to perish in
the end."
> and are free to inhabit form, abandon form, or re-inhabit form
> freely.
One day Rob says that arahants are prohibited from killing
themselves, but another day he's just as positive they're
welcome to do what they please. Evidently he argues whatever's
convenient for him at any time.
He's also very good at overlooking things that don't match
his taste. In this case he's forgetting that choosing to
remain in samsara is considered a sacrifice made to benefit the
beings in need of liberation: another indication of the
negative outlook on worldly existence in Buddhism. Suzuki puts
it like so:
It is the Tathagata's great love (mahakaruna) of all
beings, which never ceases until everyone of them is
happily led to the final asylum of Nirvana; for he
refuses as long as there is a single unsaved soul to
enjoy the bliss of Samadhi to which he is entitled by
his long spiritual discipline. The Tathagata is indeed
the one who, endowed with a heart of all-embracing love
and compassion, regards all beings as if they were his
only child. If he himself enters into Nirvana, no work
will be done in the world where discrimination
(vtkalpa) goes on and multitudinousness (vicitrata)
prevails. For this reason, he refuses to leave this
world of relativity, all his thoughts are directed
towards the ignorant and suffering masses of beings,
for whom he is willing to sacrifice his enjoyment of
absolute reality and self-absorption
(samadhi-sukhabhutakotya vinivarya).
D.T. Suzuki, from his intro to the Lankavatara Sutra
> For those on the path, the Buddha both discourages attachment
> to form, and encourages the joyful states available on the journey to
> liberation.
Rob always skips the Buddha's explanation that the _jhanas_
begin with a monk "quite withdrawn from sensuality" and
"rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal." Seems he's unable
to talk about Buddhism without editing-out what he would
prefer to not see -- i.e., everything at odds with his admitted
clinging to life.
-- Catawumpus
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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