XPost: alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: epsteinrob@yahoo.com   
      
   glitch wrote:   
      
   > On 09/07/2010 12:34 PM, glitch wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 09/07/2010 12:30 PM, halfawake wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> doctor bitch wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 23/07/2010 3:42 AM, Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> "firehose"  wrote in message   
   >>>>> news:i29v4q$vpb$4@news.eternal-september.org...   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> "Nobody in Particular"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> "Nobody in Particular"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Jigme Dorje wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 4:43 pm, "Evelyn"  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> "firehose"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> > Evelyn wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >> "firehose"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Catawumpus wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> Jigme Dorje :   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Analytically speaking, religions can also be analyzed   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> along   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> an entirely different axis: the extent to which one is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> literal in interpretation. The more literal the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> interpretation, the dumber, more uni-dimensional and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> mind-limited the result. On the other end of the spectrum   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> lies the use of words as "pointers." These are more   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> likely to be the testimony of the experience the deeper   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> levels by very aware individuals. They might be   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> embellished   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> with mythology, and subject to biases and inaccuracies in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> their production as a sanctioned body of work. But one   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> recognizes the experience of awakening and its results   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> regardless of how poorly it might be presented.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> You claim to not have dogma and opinions, but here you are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> dogmatically opinionating on the topic of literal   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> interpretations.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> You argue against making discriminations, and yet you're   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> distinguishing literal interpretations from figurative   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> ones,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> which   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> you like much more. So much for walking the walk.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> [big snip]   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> To be clear, I'm not making myself your opposite number by   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> arguing literal readings are always valid and figurative   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> interpretations are always deceitful. I'm simply showing a   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> few of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> the ways in which metaphorical or allegorical   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> understandings   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> have been used to push scripture into conformity with   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> doctrine: the same   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> procedure that you rely on when confronted by items in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> conflict with   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> your preferred conclusions.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> There are many ways to read someone.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> We don't have to read him argumentatively, when he   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> expects to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> be read   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> compassionately.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> >> Firehose, Jigme is usually very compassionate.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> > We all are.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> > Especially when reading our own writings. ;-)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> > BTW he does not appear to be as fragile as Tang is trying to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> make   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> > him out to be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> He isn't. Tang has always worked very hard at creating a   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> fictional Jigme who never really existed. Nobody has ever been   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> able to convince   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> him that this is a crazy assumption based on nothing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> --   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Evelyn   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> In the stony fastness of the mountains there is a strange   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> market,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> where   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> one may barter the vortex of life for boundless bliss. –   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Milarepa-   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Hide quoted text -   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> And in fact, isn't that what we all do?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> It brings to mind Tolle's account of observing a lady talking to   
   >>>>>>>>>>> herself in public - carrying on an internal dialogue about all   
   >>>>>>>>>>> the   
   >>>>>>>>>>> wrongs that had been done her. As he thought over her   
   >>>>>>>>>>> predicament   
   >>>>>>>>>>> it occurred to him - isn't this what I'm doing too within my   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mind   
   >>>>>>>>>>> all day long, day in, day out? How can we find peace, quiet the   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mind sufficiently to enter the pureness of the moment when we   
   >>>>>>>>>>> are   
   >>>>>>>>>>> constantly carrying on internal dialogues, entertaining   
   >>>>>>>>>>> voices of   
   >>>>>>>>>>> discontent?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Instead of letting the voices run us, we can just observe the   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mental   
   >>>>>>>>>>> fermentations without judgement, and in stepping outside of the   
   >>>>>>>>>>> din,   
   >>>>>>>>>>> the observer is experienced as true being.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Whoever thought awakening could be so easy?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> I've heard that from several people, how easy that is. So why   
   >>>>>>>>>> is it   
   >>>>>>>>>> so hard for most of us?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> We are complicated beings, and we are rather attached to our   
   >>>>>>>>> idea of   
   >>>>>>>>> ourselves. Kalu Rinpoche said the following:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> "There is nothing to be gained, nothing to be found which is not   
   >>>>>>>>> there   
   >>>>>>>>> already.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Truth is so simple, Buddhahood is so simple, Bodhicitta is so   
   >>>>>>>>> simple.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Truth is here, even here in this very cell. Truth is in you. The   
   >>>>>>>>> silence,   
   >>>>>>>>> the sunyata is in you. You are the silence, you are the truth; you   
   >>>>>>>>> are the   
   >>>>>>>>> Buddha. It is here at this moment, so simple and so near. Yet we   
   >>>>>>>>> make it   
   >>>>>>>>> so distant when it is so near, so complicated when it is so   
   >>>>>>>>> simple.   
   >>>>>>>>> Do you know what it is like to be ready to set out, to be at the   
   >>>>>>>>> roadside and   
   >>>>>>>>> beside your motorcar, but to have lost the way?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You are the Buddha.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Then why do you not feel it? Why do you not know it? Because there   
      
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