XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: kimmerian@fastmail.fm   
      
   Nobody in Particular :   
      
   > Nah, that guy is only interested in parading his ego and attacking anyone   
   > who refuses to acknowledge to completely surrender to it.   
      
        The guy there is going out his way to make an attack, more   
   than likely because I pointed out a sutta contrary to his   
   notion that the enlightened are beyond suffering.  Fundies like   
   him are easily provoked.   
      
   > I watched him argue with Jigma and Rob, twisting and misinterpreting their   
   > responses in an attempt to nail them.   
      
        More unsupported accusations:  the same kind Rob and Jigme   
   toss when they can't defend the crap they say, i.e., the   
   twisting and misinterpretation they depend on in discussing the   
   Bible, the suttas, etc.   
      
   > I tried to get him to understand the   
   > difference between pain and suffering, but he's too stuck, and refuses to   
      
        Shame the way that some people just plain lie when they're   
   unable to defend their beliefs.  I never claimed pain and   
   suffering are always the same.  The opposite:  I showed English   
   distinguishes them.   
      
        The problem for Mr. Nobody is that the Sakalika Sutta very   
   clearly implies the Buddha suffers from the pain that he   
   receives from a sharp piece of rock.  I explained why, but he's   
   short of an honest reply.   
      
        Short version:  rather than claiming the Buddha transcends   
   or otherwise escapes his pain, the sutta describes him   
   _enduring_ it, which would be nonsense if it wasn't causing him   
   any suffering.   
      
   > even consider an interpretation other than his own.   
      
        Mr. Nobody is lying again.  Instead of coming up with some   
   other interpretation, he's depended completely on the   
   falsehood that I'm equating pain with suffering.  Nothing close   
   to the truth.   
      
        I told Mr. Nobody I would stand corrected if he could show   
   where I was wrong about the sutta -- but rather than   
   addressing what it says, he's replied with meaningless personal   
   attacks.   
      
        Well, I shouldn't call them meaningless, since they reveal   
   his inability to face up to the scripture.  We've gone back   
   and forth (though short of the canonical 5000), and he's ducked   
   every time.   
      
   > He would make a great Southern Baptist preacher.   
      
        I might as well be talking to a bunch of Southern Baptists   
   or any believers who answer with anger, lies and empty   
   accusations when their treasured ideas are called into question.   
      
   -- Catawumpus   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)