XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: kimmerian@fastmail.fm   
      
   halfawake :   
      
   > There are two possible sense of "enduring" here.  One is that he must   
   > "endure" something that is difficult to endure; the other is that he is   
   > able to endure what would otherwise be unendurable.  In the second sense   
      
        Both senses imply the Buddha is suffering from the pain he   
   receives from the rock shard.  Maybe the pain is bad, maybe   
   it's worse.  Either way he isn't claimed to escape or transcend   
   it but rather to endure its effects, which would be   
   nonsensical if he wasn't suffering from them in any way, and he   
   gets praised for enduring well, which would be nuts if he   
   avoided suffering instead of bearing up under the pain the rock   
   gave him.   
      
   > it would imply that because Buddha does not take his pain personally, he   
   > does not suffer from it the way he would if he attached self-concept to   
   > the pain.   
      
        By implying that the Buddha suffers from the pain the rock   
   caused him, the Sakalika Sutta contradicts your idea the   
   enlightened are beyond suffering, no matter whether he suffered   
   in this way or that one.   
      
   -- Catawumpus   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)