XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: kimmerian@fastmail.fm   
      
   Nobody in Particular :   
      
   > You've   
      
        I've explained why the Sakalika Sutta implies the Buddha's   
   suffering, despite your claim to the contrary, and I've   
   answered the nonsense you peddled in place of a more meaningful   
   reply.   
      
        Short version:  rather than stating the Buddha transcended   
   or in any way escaped the pain that he received from a   
   rock-shard, the sutta says that he endured the painful feelings   
   it gave him and credits him for enduring well, thereby   
   implying his suffering.  Otherwise nothing to endure, no reason   
   for the praise.   
      
        You answered by falsely saying I'd confused suffering with   
   pain.  Plainly untrue, since I argued that the Buddha's   
   suffering is implied by the idea he _endures_ the pain he feels.   
      
        Continuing down same path, you mistakenly insisted English   
   doesn't distinguish pain and suffering, something it does   
   easily, e.g. in saying someone under anesthesia isn't suffering   
   from pain.   
      
        You were just as off the mark in comparing me with a fundy   
   who makes the original fit the translation, since I said   
   explicitly that I _didn't_ want to place too much weight on the   
   English.   
      
        When you came back for another try you told me I was wrong   
   to say "the sutra's meaning of the word 'suffering' is the   
   meaning of its common usage in English."  One little problem in   
   your criticism:  the word "suffering" doesn't turn up in   
   either one of the English translations I've quoted, and I   
   never said _anything_ about its meaning for the good and simple   
   reason it isn't there.   
      
   > gone way beyond boring, Mr. Johnny-OneNote, with your "I'm right,   
   > everybody else is wrong" droning.   
      
        You can't think up a valid reply, so you delete the entire   
   dialogue -- you didn't leave a single word, yours or mine --   
   claim boredom, and substitute name-calling for the response you   
   were unable to make.   
      
   -- Catawumpus   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)