71e5331c   
   XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: epsteinrob@yahoo.com   
      
   Awaken21 wrote:   
      
   > On Sep 15, 4:25 pm, Nobody in Particular  wrote:   
   >   
   >>halfawake wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>Awaken21 wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>On Sep 15, 10:36 am, Hollywood Lee  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>>Sure, and irrespective of the silly content and poor logic quality of   
   >>>>>his posts, he is able to demonstrate that all the years of meditation   
   >>>>>and Buddhist practice are of little value,   
   >>   
   >>>>you know what the emotional conditions of  the person's in question   
   >>>>were before they started meditating?   
   >>   
   >>>>if you don't know mental emotional conditions of the person to start   
   >>>>with I don't believe it's possible to accurately measure efficacy over   
   >>>>time or value of the practice to that person.   
   >>   
   >>>I agree with that!  But I think the reactivity and attachment in these   
   >>>arguments at the very least shows how hard it is to reach detachment and   
   >>>maintain equanimity.   
   >   
   >   
   > it shows us ourselves when we lack the mental discipline to let go of   
   > what it is we believe identifies us as a separated entity.   
      
   very true.   
      
   >>> Even if half the people around here started out as   
   >>>basket cases, or just started practicing yesterday, it is still pretty   
   >>>widespread to get self at stake and start arguing like our lives depend   
   >>>on it.  Maybe not true for everyone, and to me it doesn't mean practice   
   >>>is not effective - just that I think for most of us, it seems to be a   
   >>>long, slow path.   
   >   
   >   
   > Yes, when you were digging yourself in time just flew by and now the   
   > expectation of quick fix.   
      
   I've been aware of the patience required for quite a while now, and the   
   path seems nicely vast to me.  What's different than years ago, is that   
   I have a good sense of where I am at, what some of the obstacles are,   
   and have a good sense of how to practice.  The very simple practice I   
   have now is much more concrete than years ago, and it amazes me how much   
   there is to do with a very simple practice.  It's wide open every   
   moment.  I'm not looking for a quick fix, just noting how ingrained the   
   self-view is.   
      
   >  we are all spoiled children, damned to hell.   
   > it might be annoying if it didn't provide so much entertainment.   
   > you're still arguing with him non-stop for example.   
      
   not really.  two clarifications in a couple of days, as opposed to   
   scores of posts before that.  but I do get pulled in, for sure.   
      
   But anyway who's counting?   :)   
      
   Robert   
      
   = = = = = =   
      
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