1979d05a   
   XPost: talk.religion.buddhism, alt.zen, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: kimmerian@fastmail.fm   
      
   RaaN :   
      
   > An implication is not an hallucination.   
      
        You imagined the word "suffer" is "offered as a   
   translation" in the Sakalika Sutta and you proceeded from there   
   to make assertions about its meaning without realizing the   
   word isn't used in either of the Englishings that I quoted from.   
      
   > Endure by definition implies suffering as of pain or difficulty.   
      
        My point exactly.  By saying the Buddha _endured_ the pain   
   that he received from a sharp piece of rock, rather than   
   claiming he avoided it in some way, and crediting him for doing   
   so nicely, the Sakalika Sutta implies his suffering.   
   Otherwise nothing for him to endure and no reason to praise him   
   for doing it well.   
      
        Again, I don't want to lean too heavily on one word in the   
   English, but I've found a second translation that says the   
   same thing.  U Tin U's rendering states the Buddha "endured the   
   pain," same as in Thanissaro Bhikkhu's version, which   
   describes him enduring his painful feelings -- not transcending   
   or escaping them.   
      
   > Clearly you fallaciously equivocate this   
   > (implied) use of the word suffering with that of the more imprecise   
   > use of the word to translate Dukkha e.g. Life is suffering.   
      
        Plainly you're a dunce.  I can't be equivocating since I'm   
   arguing clearly and consistently.  The word you seem to be   
   looking for is "equate."  Nevermind about translations:  you're   
   having trouble with English.   
      
   -- Catawumpus   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)