c8316ce1   
   XPost: alt.zen, alt.religion.buddhism.theravada, alt.philosophy.zen   
   XPost: alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren   
   From: usagi@tsukino.ca   
      
   On 5/9/2012 1:59 PM, Buku wrote:   
   >   
   >> How about today, buku? Do you think the schools of buddhism have become   
   >> corrupt again? Do you think we need another Nichiren to show us the way?   
   >> Or do you think the old Nichiren is still good enough for now? ^^   
   >   
   >   "This man" in Chapter 21 of the Lotus Sutra can mean no one other   
   > than Nichiren Daishonin. Eventually, one by one the other three   
   > leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth will emerge.   
      
   The next four paragraphs are about the statement Nichiren is "This man".   
      
   That's a strong statement. Nichiren set out a three-proofs system to   
   help ordinary people correctly evaluate the validity of a given   
   doctrine. He established a set of three criteria: actual proof,   
   documentary proof, theoretical proof.   
      
   How can we prove that Nichiren was this man? I don't doubt he could be   
   the man, but how do we know for sure? There is no documentary proof,   
   because documentary proof means that it should be in accord with the   
   sutras. Most of what Nichiren teaches is not found in the sutras, and   
   indeed goes against most of what is said in sutras besides the Lotus   
   sutra. But even if we only look to the lotus sutra, the mere existance   
   of a prophecy does not mean that prophecy has to apply to Nichiren. I   
   hope you see where I'm going with this.   
      
   Secondly, theoretical proof means that the teaching must accord with   
   reason and logic. Nichiren Buddhism is profoundly based on the principle   
   of cause and effect. Therefore for you to make such a strong statement   
   I'd expect that there would at least be some theoretical proof. Again, I   
   do not "expect" that Nichiren is any kind of person who was foretold   
   would appear in the Lotus sutra. Why would I expect that? Maybe I don't   
   know enough about the life and times of Nichiren or the prophecy   
   contained in the Lotus sutra, so I don't see the connection. But I don't   
   see any reason to uphold Nichiren (vs. the Lotus Sutra). Again, many   
   well known buddhists proclaimed the lotus sutra -- including Huineng.   
      
   Finally, actual proof. This means that the teaching actually changes   
   people's lives for the better, that there is undeniable improvement that   
   anyone can see. Nichiren argued that actual proof is the most important   
   of the three. I ask you: How does assuming that Nichiren is "this man"   
   mentioned in Chapter 21 change people's lives for the better? Which   
   means, that we cannot stand on documentary proof or theoretical proof,   
   and we must examine "actual proof". This is a good argument but   
   logically, a very weak one.   
      
   I'm open to your proof, or, if this is just a doctrine of Nichiren buddhism?   
      
   > Question: "How about today?"   
   > Answer: "How much worse will it be after his passing?", not only   
   > refers to after the passing of the Buddha but the Buddha's foremost   
   > disciple Nichiren. The struggle his disciples will have with   
   > blasphemers, slanderers, smiling backstabbers, flatterers, and men of   
   > corrupt principles are a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand times worse   
   > than during the time of Nichiren.   
      
   Hmm, this seems like an odd thing to say -- I am not focused on these   
   things, but I agree we should follow this course and see where it leads.   
      
   > Question: Why?   
   > Answer: Nichiren had Nembutsu, Zen, Ritsu, True Word, and Tendai   
   > [Mikkyo] with whom to contend. Our struggle with the Nichiren Shoshu   
   > and the Soka Gakkai is even more profound and serious. The most   
   > perverse sect at the time of Nichiren was arguably Tendai [Mikkyo]   
   > which mixed Lotus Sutra Buddhism and Shingon. Today, we have a similar   
   > problem but NST and SGI are more dangerous than Tendai because they   
   > mix the Essential Teachings of the Lotus Sutra with Shingon [rather   
   > than the Theoretical Teachings and Shingon, as in Mikkyo during   
   > Nichiren's day]. They are far more cunning and clever than Jikaku,   
   > Enchin, and Annen. Lamanism and secret oral transmissions are not   
   > Nichiren Daishonin’s Lotus Sutra teachings. Our main struggle today is   
   > with these two aberrant sects. They praise the Lotus Sutra but destroy   
   > its intent and many people are confused and led into the evil paths.   
      
   Nichiren was a monk of the Tendai school. How did he achieve his   
   realization from their teachings? If this is not the case how did   
   Nichiren make his realization and then reject the Tendai school?   
      
   Perhaps this is why he was so special. But there must be some train of   
   thought which Nichiren followed that makes sense, that we can also   
   follow and make the same realizations he made. Anyways I am not familiar   
   with lamaism, nor oral teachings of buddhism.   
      
   > Nichiren says extreme evil is most difficult to perceive and like   
   > radiation, we can not see, smell, touch, hear, or taste extreme evil   
   > [because it is so disguised].   
      
   This has now been set up as a case of Nichiren-said/she-said. It now   
   appears that this is set on whether or not we accept Nichiren's   
   credibility. I am not accepting or denying it until I can discern more   
   about Nichiren's realization and ultimate rejection of the Tendai school   
   where he was a monk.   
      
    > Only with a tool such as a geiger   
   > counter can we perceive radiation or through witnessing the effects of   
   > exposure. Only through the Scripture of the Wonderful Law, the   
   > writings of Nichiren, and the disastrous effects of the NST and SGI   
   > faith, can we perceive the devastation of these false teachings.   
      
   Okay, now there is a way to test this. You are saying that, with this   
   "Scripture of the Wonderful Law (i.e. the writings of Nichiren)" we can   
   detect the "evil"?   
      
   I don't mind trying it and seeing if it works (this is "actual proof").   
   Is this what you mean?   
      
   > We   
   > need a hundred thousand honest and upright disciples of Nichiren   
   > since, at this time, there is no one who can come close to filling his   
   > shoes. Were one to emerge, I believe he will emerge from the Kempon   
   > Hokke or possibly from an awakened independent.practitioner.   
      
   Hello ;-) Well we shall see.   
      
   > The problem is, as Nichiren teaches, "To practice as it teaches, and   
   > in accordance with the time and the people’s capacity, will incite   
   > truly agonizing ordeals." There are not a handful of men or women in   
   > the course of a Millenium who can confront and overcome such "truly   
   > agonizing ordeals" [that a Supreme Votary of the Lotus Sutra is sure   
   > to encounter]. Only a true votaryof the Lotus Sutra in the mold of   
   > Nichiren will be able to unify the various Nichiren sects. A hundred   
   > thousand good men and women blooming in the swamp of agonizing ordeals   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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