3f0ed346   
   XPost: alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan, alt.zen   
   From: 8.tim.harris@gmail.com   
      
   what? you want proof that someone has read this don't you?   
      
      
   On Sep 13, 7:53 pm, Peter Terpstra  wrote:   
   > Depression’s Truth   
   >   
   > We are normally charmed by the world, under the spell of samsaric   
   > entertainment. But it's when we're depressed, says TRALEG KYABGON   
   > RINPOCHE, that we can see through that.   
   >   
   > Depression is something we all experience. For some people depression is   
   > mild, while for others it is very intense and debilitating. For some   
   > people it lasts for a short time and then disappears, while for others   
   > it may persist over many years, or even an entire lifetime. We generally   
   > think of depression as a terrible state to be in: it is something we   
   > think we have to overcome, and we go to great lengths to hide it from   
   > others. This is probably because when we suffer from depression, our   
   > energy levels and motivation go down and we become withdrawn,   
   > uncommunicative, irritable, resentful and basically very difficult to be   
   > with. There is also often a lot of anger, jealousy or envy mixed with   
   > depression, because seeing someone who is happy only makes our   
   > depression worse. The point is that depression, in terms of its   
   > symptoms, can be debilitating and paralyzing because of what the   
   > Buddhists call the “conflicting emotions” associated with it. When we   
      
   > are depressed, our self-esteem and self-confidence plummet. We begin to   
   > doubt ourselves. We begin to think that we have become a failure at   
   > everything.   
      
   why must this be depression? a breath in to... re-engineer. i agree   
   that depression can be very debilitating for many people.   
      
   happiness is not always visible.   
      
   and, i suppose to the clowns, that becomes a chance to make some sun   
   shine... but in fact, they only make things worse for the patient   
   since it is the annoying behavior reaction from the clown that is the   
   symptom in both.   
      
      
   > Western psychotherapists say that you can learn a person's reasons for   
   > experiencing depression if you look into their biographical or   
   > biological history. From the Buddhist point of view, though, the   
   > fundamental understanding is that depression is based on our   
   > interpretations of our life situations, our circumstances, our   
      
      
   > self-conceptions. We get depressed for not being the person we want to   
   > be. We get depressed when we think we have not been able to achieve the   
   > things that we want to achieve in life.   
      
   we are dissatisfied being others and to ourselves... a stranger.   
      
   > But depression is not necessarily a bad state to be in. When we are   
   > depressed, we may actually be able to see through the falsity and   
   > deceptive nature of the samsaric world. In other words, we should not   
   > think, “When I am depressed my mind is distorted and messed up, while   
   > when I am not depressed I am seeing everything clearly.”   
   >   
   > According to Buddhism, the world that we perceive—the world we interact   
   > with and live in—is insubstantial. Through the experience of depression   
      
   yes, well buddhists are not exactly known for their reasoning powers.   
   but they respond in accord with pain an suffering and want to know why   
   like any of us.   
      
   > and despair we can begin to see things more clearly rather than less   
   > clearly. It is said that we are normally charmed or bedazzled by the   
   > world, like a spell has been put on us by the allure of samsaric   
   > excitements and entertainment. When we get depressed, though, we begin   
   > to see through that—we are able to cut through the illusions of samsara.   
   > Depression, when we work with it, can be like a signal, something that   
   > puts a brake on our excesses and reminds us of the banality of the   
   > samsaric condition, so that we will not be duped into sliding back into   
   > the old habits again. It reminds us of the futility, insignificance and   
   > non-substantiality of the samsaric condition.   
   >   
   > That is extremely important, according to Buddhism, because if we are   
   > not convinced of the illusory nature of the samsaric condition, we will   
   > always be two-minded. We will have one foot in the spiritual realm and   
   > the other in the samsaric realm, never being fully able to make that   
   > extra effort.   
      
   this may be in error but the use of the word "accord-ing" is an action   
   and thus you are trying to create a union or a bridge with buddhism.   
   your interpretation will be debated.   
      
   >   
   > We are not talking, though, about chronic or clinical depression here,   
   > depression that has got way out of hand. We are talking about the kind   
   > of depression that makes us stop and think and re-evaluate our lives.   
      
   i knew i would get to it eventually, raise this dead, it is buried too   
   deep.   
      
   > This kind of depression can aid us in terms of our spiritual growth,   
      
   what kind? buddhist suffering? the misery of it all is the nature of   
   its emptiness.   
      
   > because it makes us begin to question ourselves. For all these years we   
   > may have been thinking, “I'm this kind of person,” “I'm that kind of   
   > person,” “I'm a mother,” “I'm an engineer,” or whatever. Then suddenly   
   > that familiar world crumbles. The rug is pulled out from under our feet.   
   > We have to have experiences like that for our spiritual journey to be   
   > meaningful; otherwise we will not be convinced of the non-substantial   
   > nature of the samsaric world. Instead, we will take the world of   
   > everyday life to be real.   
   >   
   > With a genuinely constructive form of depression, we become nakedly in   
   > touch with our emotions and feelings. We feel a need to make sense of   
   > everything, but in new ways. Now, making sense of everything from the   
   > samsaric point of view does not work. All the old beliefs, attitudes and   
   > ways of dealing with things have not worked. One has to evaluate, say   
   > and do things differently, experience things differently. That comes   
   > from using depression in a constructive fashion.   
      
   perhaps but not nearly concrete enough... wet cement. you are   
   suggesting two symptoms now. two kinds of depression thus the divide   
   over which type of state is it? just ask your self that question and   
   see what i mean with your own answer.   
      
      
   > Depression can be used to curb our natural urges to lose control, to   
   > become distracted and outwardly directed, dispersing our energy in all   
   > directions. The feeling of depression always reminds us of ourselves; it   
   > stops us from becoming lost in our activities, in our experiences of   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)