XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.christian.religion, alt.christ   
   et.christianlife   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,   
   alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.buddhism, alt.religiontaoism, alt.current-affairs.muslim   
   From: Not-Sure@ideocracy.gov   
      
   On 07/24/2018 12:32 PM, Attila wrote:   
   > On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:40:12 -0400, #BeamMeUpScotty   
   >  in alt.atheism with message-id   
   >  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 07/24/2018 03:10 AM, Attila wrote:   
   >>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 19:41:56 -0400, #BeamMeUpScotty   
   >>>  in alt.atheism with message-id   
   >>> <9xP4D.453288$br4.63128@fx34.iad> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>> On 7/21/2018 7:47 AM, David Hartung wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>> you   
   >>>>>> have presented no reasoned argument that the "human life" and   
   >>>>>> "person-hood" are two different things.   
   >>>> A person is an individual human that has environmental experiences.   
   >>> That has been born alive.   
   >>>   
   >> That's NOT what it says in the Constitution.   
   >   
   > The Constitution does not address personhood.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> The person has to be born alive to be a citizen....  they always were a   
   >> person, from conception.   
   >   
   > Not before live birth.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Amendment XIV   
   >> Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and   
   >> subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States   
   >> and of the State wherein they reside.   
   >>   
   >> They are a person before they are Naturalized   
   >   
   > Which always happens.  A fetus cannot be a citizen.   
      
   Because it has not been born (correct), being born is the threshold for   
   citizenship, NOT personhood.  You were at least partially correct.   
      
   >> and a person before they   
   >> are born. That's why they are "all persons born or all persons   
   >> naturalized" they were all persons from conception and be they born or   
   >> naturalized they are both citizens.   
   >   
   > Nope.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> A person born in the United States, is a person that was later born in   
   >> the united States, birth does NOT create a person, it creates a citizen.   
   >> That was the point of the clause.   
   >   
   > The clause only addressed citizenship.  Not personhood.   
   >   
   >   
   Exactly, the clause takes it as a fact that a person is created at   
   conception and a Government of men can only create citizenship NOT give   
   you UNALIENABLE RIGHTS like the right to life... that was done by your   
   creator.  So you have no DELEGATED POWER in the constitution that can be   
   used to change the RIGHT to life or liberty....  it is there from the   
   beginning of life which is conception.   
      
   We have those unalienable rights regardless of the laws of man.   
      
   Which is why capital punishment is NOT moral unless the society has no   
   ability to keep the guilty from killing.   
      
   You can't be for ending the death penalty and for abortion at the same   
   time. You can only commit to do either one to save lives NOT for   
   convenience or hate. To be for either one and NOT for the other is to be   
   contradicting yourself.   
      
   *Liberalism is unsustainable, self destructive and contradicting*   
      
      
      
      
   --   
   That's Karma   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)