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|    alt.religion.new    |    Sortof like the Flying Spaghetti Monster    |    684 messages    |
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|    Message 131 of 684    |
|    Allan Svensson to All    |
|    The Trinity    |
|    13 Feb 06 17:00:26    |
      From: allan-sv@algonet.se               The Trinity              The Bible teaches plainly that the Father is a person, and the Son Jesus       Christ is a person, and that the Holy Spirit is a person. Please read John       6th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 15th and 16th Chapter. Jesus speaks there about       the Father and about himself.              John 16:13-14 shows plainly that the Holy Spirit is a person. "But when       that One comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide you into all Truth, for       He will not speak from Himself, but as many things as He hears, He will       speak; and He will announce the coming things to you. That One will       glorify Me, for He will take from Mine and will announce to you."              There is no reason to make a separate doctrine of this, named "the doctrine       of the trinity". But men have done such a doctrine, and in that way caused       a problem entirely unnecessarily.              This is a worry for many Christians. The word "trinity" does not occur in       the Bible, and how to think about this? We do not need to take any notice       of "the doctrine of the trinity". This doctrine is only a figment. We can       ignore this doctrine and read God's word just as it is written in the Bible.              God has not given us any problem with the trinity. Nevertheless, when       people manipulate with God's word and make their own theories and       doctrines, then problems appear. Instead of reading God's word as it is       written, they have made a doctrine about what the Bible teaches. They       have a doctrine about the doctrine.              They also have made a doctrine about what the Bible teaches about the       Assembly of God, and a doctrine about what the Bible teaches about the       baptism in the Holy Spirit. Consequently, they have not preached the truth       of the Assembly of God, and not the truth of the baptism in the Holy Spirit.              Every church and every denomination have its own assembly doctrine,       but they have one sake in common. They are religious black buildings       and are not founded on God's word.              "Jehovah's Witnesses" deny God's trinity and say that Jesus is not God,       and that the Holy Spirit is no person, but it is clear from many places in       the Bible that Jesus existed before he was born as a man. Jesus himself       says in John 17:5, "And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself, with the       glory which I had with You before the world was to be." In Col. 1:14-17       we see that Jesus is the first-born, and all things were created through       him and for him.              Other, who also deny God's trinity, mean that the Father and the Son and       the Holy Spirit are the same person. This doctrine has been spread out of       William M. Branham.              Jesus says to his disciples, "...baptizing them into the name of the Father       and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Matt. 28:19. Observe. This is not       a doctrine of the Church, but words of Jesus. The Churches have mixed       God's word with their own doctrine, and therefore, when we reject the       false doctrine of the Church, then we must be careful so that we do not       also reject God's word.              In John 14:16-17 Jesus says, "And I will ask the Father, and He will give       you another Advocate, that He may remain with you to the age, the Spirit       of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor       know Him; but you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you."       In verse 26, "... but the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will       send in My name, He shall teach you all things and shall remind you of all       things that I said to you." If now the Father and the Holy Spirit and Jesus       himself is the same person, then it implies that Jesus will pray to himself       that he will send himself to his disciples. Does it not seem strange?              In verse 23 Jesus says, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my       Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with       him."(KJV) Why does Jesus say "we" and "our" if he comes alone? Jesus       says in John 5:19 that he can do nothing by himself. He can do only what he       sees his Father doing. The Father had sent Jesus and he came to do his       Father's will. John 6:38.              Jesus does not say to Philip that he is the Father. He says, "Do you not       believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words which       I speak to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father, the One abiding       in Me, He does the works." John 14:10. We can read from Luke 22:41-42, "       And He was withdrawn from them, about a stone's throw. And having       placed the knees, He prayed, saying, Father, if You purpose it, take away       this cup from Me; but let not be My will, but Yours be done."To whom did       Jesus pray? Did he pray to himself?              The Lord's Prayer in John 17th chapter, is it a monologue where he tells       with himself? "And I do not ask concerning these only, but also concerning       the ones who will believe into Me through their word; that all may be       one, as You are in Me, Father, and I in You, that they also may be one in       Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And I have given them       the glory which You have given Me, that they may be one, as We are one:       I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected in one; and that the       world may know that You sent Me and You loved them, just as You loved       Me." Verses 20-23.              The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are the same God, perfectly       united to one, but it does not imply that they are the same person. Jesus       wants that the same unity may be among his people.              The man is also a trinity and consists of spirit, soul and body, and is       created       in the triune God's image. "And God said, let Us make man in Our image,       according to Our likeness; ..." Gen.1:26. (But a man is only one person).                     Allan Svensson              If you have any questions after reading of this article       Please, visit my Web Site              http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CONTENTS.HTM              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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