XPost: alt.bible, alt.christian.bible, alt.christian.religion   
   XPost: alt.christnet.bible, alt.christian   
      
   >> Friend james, good to see you posting again.   
   >>   
   >> Many see an ufo in this account as ancient people might have described it:   
   >>   
   >> Ezekiel   
   >> 1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great   
   >> cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it,   
   >> and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of   
   >> the fire.   
   >   
   >So what did Ezekiel see? A "VISION". (Eze 1:1)   
      
   Indeed, as often happened among OT prophets.  That in no way made it not   
   an ufo any more then any other thing in visions.>   
      
   >And the "vision" was a whirlwind containing a bright, fiery, amber, cloud.   
   >   
   >> 1:5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living   
   >> creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.   
   >   
   >They were a lot weirder than that. They each had four faces. One was a   
   >man, one was an ox, one was a lion, and one was an eagle.(vs 10) No that   
   >was not an extraterrestrial. It was very 'earthy' with those animal   
   >faces. And that vision had a special meaning for Ezekiel.   
      
   Sure, but having a meaning for him still does not refute it being of an   
    ufo in what it meant to him.   
   >   
   >> Friend james you set a logical fallacy of a false dichotomy,  That is a   
   >> false either/or forced decision.   
   >>   
   >> We have two revelations from God, scripture and His creation.  We are not   
   >> forced to choose one over the other.   
   >   
   >They are both intertwined together. Don't you know that?   
      
   Sure, therefore ...?>   
      
   >> In His creation; large scale biological change over time,ie. evolution is   
   >> clearly revealed by God.   
   >   
   >With respect, NONSENSE! God did NOT use evolution to bring about humans.   
      
   The revelation in His creation finds nothing different with humans then   
   other cretures as to biological change over time.   
      
   >For instance, God created Adam right on the spot. He STARTED OUT with a   
   >head, two arms and legs, a torso etc.   
      
   Sure, nothing different from other creatures in the revelation.  For all   
   existing creatures we now know there was a moment of beginning different   
   biological change from those before it.   
      
   >Also he came with a full language,   
   >and even recited some poetry when Eve was created. (Gen 2:23) He didn't   
   >grunt and groan like the alleged 'caveman', nor beat Eve over the head   
   >with a club and drag her around by her hair. Adam AND Eve were created   
   >intelligent and in God's image. Didn't you know that?   
   I know the cartoon strawman you are trying to invent.  Your depiction of   
   neanderthal is not in accord with God's revelation.  That includes language   
   and other behaviors shared with modern humans..   
   >   
   >> Compared to God's creation revelation, in jw doctrine, how old is the earth   
   >   
   >Scientists say over 4 billion years old. JW's have no problem with that   
   >figure.   
      
   Yes I already know, they depart from others who say the bible as their   
   sole source say otherwise.>  Mr. russel in the period of his life would   
   have agreed with them.  One more example of a jw flip flop on doctrine.   
   >   
   >> and when did creation begin and life appear?   
   >   
   >The Bible does not give us enough information to get a date when life   
   >was first created. Based on the apostle Paul's statement that we are   
   >still in God's rest day (7th day), each creative day was a least around   
   >6000-7000 years long.   
      
   Really, I thought the creation starting on the first day could be 4 billion   
   years ago as the jw accept science?  The same for the day just before life   
   appeared?   
      
   That understanding is a self serving jw bit of doctrine.  There is *no*   
   basis for those time periods of a "day".  Scripture also to God is like a   
   thousand years, no?  The jw are always eager for what are obviously   
   metaphors to be their doctrine as backfill in scripture 2000 years later.   
      
   >That would make the start of life at least around   
   >42,000 years ago or more.   
      
   Not according to the "day" sequence and their time period in Genesus you   
   gave as jw doctrine, no?   
      
   God's revelation in His creation easily refutes that date;.>   
      
   >But we do have dates and genealogies that show that humans have only   
   >been around for over 6000 years. Adam would have been created 4026   
   >B.C.E. And when you look around the earth at ancient civilizations, you   
   >see such a date (ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc.)   
      
   Can you show they are complete within themselves and that *all* gaps   
   between are filled?  Anser - no; scripture is completely silent on such   
   things.   
      
   >As per my posting, no, I don't believe there are such things as real   
   >physical extraterrestrials.Those that see things are seeing demon magic.   
      
   No basis in scripture for that.  Was the example above an example of that?   
   What about Jacob's ladder and and Paul's experience on the road to   
   damascus and any number of other examples? >   
      
   In fact, show us one clear example of what you speak of is clearly spoken   
   of in scripture.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)