XPost: alt.atheism, alt.bible, alt.christnet.christianlife   
   From: michaelmclean2021@outlook.com   
      
   On 21/01/2023 8:51 pm, Malte Runz wrote:   
   > On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 09:20:33 +1100, Michael McLean   
   >  wrote:   
   >   
   > (snip)   
   >   
   >> Malte wrote:   
   >>> But gravity is the answer.   
   >>   
   >> No, it is not, it is beyond that.  All "gravity" is, is a word. ...   
   >   
   > So is 'creator'.   
      
   True, but I would not expect anyone to accept that as a complete   
   explanation of who and what He is.   
      
   That is the point.   
      
      
   >> ...  It is   
   >> not an explanation, it is not an understanding, or reason, or even,   
   >> indeed, a defining of its reality.   
   >   
   > Ditto.   
      
   Then we agree.   
      
      
   > The difference is that gravity is a word that represents a perceivable   
   > phenomenon in the physical world. Cant say that about your Creator,   
   > can we.   
      
   To you, maybe not, but to me and billions of other people, the physical   
   world is proof of a Creator and a demonstration of His power.  I have a   
   bible verse in mind in Romans 1 but I will not inflict you with it.   
      
      
   >> It is all about what we perceive.   
   >>   
   >> We are in a matrix, and all fallen man sees are physical things, and you   
   >> lot pretend that is all there is, and thus you give your names to those   
   >> physical things as explanation.  All sown up then?  Far from it!   
   >>   
   >> If our eyes were opened and we could see, say radio waves, or gamma   
   >> waves, or electricity, or the 'sound' of music, or the true intent of a   
   >> man's words (that'll really shock ya), and so on, we would all be blown   
   >> away and blown away again.   
   >>   
   >> Same with gravity.  If you could see gravity, the last thing you would   
   >> be thinking is, "Oh, that is just gravity."  It is much more than a   
   >> word, it is a power greater than us.   
   >   
   > ... Huh? Sorry, I dozed off after I read the words "We are in a   
   > matrix".   
      
   We are in a matrix, and when your eyes are opened, you'll be able to see   
   what you are really saying.  I like to say, "When the lights are turned   
   on."   
      
   I've already gone on about "seeing" sound, and the like.   
      
   To see gravity working will leave what you call it behind.  A bit like   
   extreme sport: you jump and the definition of what you have done is   
   superseded by the thrill.   
      
   Marriage is a bit like that too.  You do all the formal stuff (the   
   definition), and then the marriage begins.   
      
      
   >>>> I am talking about human perception. For the love of God, human perceive   
   >>>> that please!   
   >>>   
   >>> We perceive 'up' as the opposite direction as 'down' (duh!),   
   >>   
   >> That is the point.   
   >   
   > Cool. Problem solved.   
   >>   
   >>> and down   
   >>> is pointing towards the center of the sphere we walk on. How do we   
   >>> sense it? Gravity! Have you ever heard of gravity? GRAVITYYYYY!!!!   
   >>   
   >> You said we perceive up and down, and, of course, the "duh," because you   
   >> are really weally weally clever, and you just know everything, Malte   
   >> mate! The point is, why do we perceive up and down if the world we live   
   >> in operates in a dimension of neither up nor down?   
   >>   
   >> Think about it.   
   >   
   > [thinking really hard]   
   >   
   >   
   > GRAVITYYYYYYYYYY!   
      
   We have already gone past that definition; it is insufficent.   
      
      
      
      
   >> Anyone can parrot what they have heard and/or been told.  Understanding,   
   >> though, is another thing.   
   >>   
   >> I like to explain it this way: a car crashes through the front window of   
   >> a supermarket.  Your level is, and it is clear and evident why there is   
   >> a car sitting in the middle of the supermarket (gravity).  "It has come   
   >> through the damn window," with a "derrrrr" attitude thrown in because   
   >> you feel the need, in your insecurity, to assert your tiresome   
   >> superiority.  But I am not asking "how" (gravity) the car got into the   
   >> centre of the supermarket, but "why?"   
   >>   
   >> "Gravity" as an answer is entirely unsatisfactory. ...   
   >   
   > Only for those who desperately want there to be 'more out there'.   
      
   There is more out there!   
      
   Memo to the world: it's all over.  :-).   
      
      
   >> ... Screaming "there is a   
   >> car in the middle of the supermarket" or "gravity" is just dumb,   
   >> extremely shallow, and leaves a mind in a zombie state, like your video   
   >> moron.   
   >>   
   >> In other words, why does "gravity," which knows no up or down, determine   
   >> in our perceptions that there is an up and down?   What dimension does   
   >> "gravity" exist in to have the power to supersede us and overrule our   
   >> perception.   
   >>   
   >> It is an entity more powerful than us and our perceptions.   
   >>   
   >> How can I be in space, returning from the moon, aiming to land on the   
   >> bottom of the ball (Australia) – from the perspective of space – and yet   
   >> appear to land on top of it in our perception?   
   >   
   > Because you enter a region of space where the gravitational field is   
   > stronger and therefore you begin to perceive 'up and down' relative to   
   > the surface of the Earth.   
   >   
   >> Are you getting warmer?   
   >>   
   >> The closest I can get for you is what I have already said, "Why do we   
   >> perceive up and down if the world we live in operates in a dimension of   
   >> neither up nor down?"   
   >   
   > And my answer is still the same.   
   >>   
   >>> And we're right back where we started.   
   >>   
   >> Yes, because your answer is unsatisfactory, ...   
   >   
   > Only to you, and only because it renders your metaphysical babble   
   > about 'hidden dimensions' and 'Creator' null and void.   
   >   
   >> ... and you know it, ...   
   >   
   > Yes, I know it. See above.   
   >   
   >> ... and now you   
   >> should feel it.   
   >   
   > I've felt it from the start. You think you're contemplating the deep   
   > mysteries of life, the Universe and everything in it, with an open   
   > mind and a level of understanding that qualifies you to give   
   > meaningful answers. But you're like a kid sitting in the back seat of   
   > a car looking out the window wondering why the Moon appears to follow   
   > along.   
      
   :-).  And, of course, you are the adult.   
      
   When the world generally had more brains, metaphysics was a science.   
      
   It still is, but the world largely has moved on to superficiality,   
   Netflix, and definitions.  And those things in themselves are   
   fundamentally and profoundly unsatisfying, unfulfilling, incredibly   
   juvenile and empty, purposeless, and meaningless.   
      
   Apart from that, it is all good.  :-).   
      
      
      
      
      
   Mike   
      
   --   
   Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.   
      
   Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were   
   YET sinners, Christ died for us.   
      
   Jeremiah 10:23  O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it   
   is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.   
      
   "To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."   
      
   "If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)