XPost: alt.christian.bible, alt.christnet, talk.religion.christi
n.roman-catholic
XPost: alt.recovery.catholicism
From: hope2basaint@nospamjustice.com
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:17:28 -0400, old man joe wrote:
>
> " But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone
>named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater,
>or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with
>such a person. " 1 Cor.5:11
>
> Idolatry is :
>
> The word idol signifies literally a representation or figure. It is
>always employed in Scripture in a bad sense, for representations of
>heathen deities of what nature soever.
>
> God forbids all sorts of idols, or figures and representations of
>creatures, formed or set up with intention of paying superstitious
>worship to them, Ex 20:3,4; 34:13; De 4:16-19; 7:25,26. He also
>forbids all attempts to represent him by any visible form, Ex 32:4,5;
>De 4:15; Ne 9:18.
>
> The heathen had idols of all sorts-paintings, bas-reliefs, and all
>varieties of sculpture-and these of many kinds of materials, as gold,
>silver, brass, stone, wood, potters earth, etc.
>
> Stars, spirits, men, animals, rivers, plants, and elements were the
>subjects of them. Scarcely an object or power in nature, scarcely a
>faculty of the soul, a virtue, a vice, or a condition of human life,
>has not received idolatrous worship.
>
> Some nations worshipped a rough stone. Such is the black stone of
>the ancient Arabs, retained by Mohammed, and now kept in the Caaba at
>Mecca.
>
> in the plainest of terms the true Christian is not to have
>fellowship Catholics since these are the most sincere worshipers of
>idols Satan has in his embrace. they want to name Mary the
>Co-Redeemer... Christ is not enough for them.
>
> these are Papists, not Christians... a Christian is a follower of
>Jesus Christ... a Papist is a follower of the pope. none of them can
>deny who their puppet master is. he is the pope.
>
Fist of all please don't cross post, if you wish to talk then you can
find me at "talk.religion.Christian.roman-catholic.
Your exegesis of 1 Cor 5:11 is in error.
I don't know if you are confused soul who doesn't understand the
Christian faith or just a bigot. I will assume the former.
As a Latin rite Christian let me put you straight.
1. Catholics are Christians.
2. Catholics do not Worship images
3. Catholics are followers of Jesus the Christ.
I'm not quite sure how to answer you comments about the pope. We can
disagree with him and still be Christian.
Your use of Scripture is lacking; you try to use it as a proof text.
Yet, you over look Scripture that doesn't agree with your view. i.e.
Ex 25:18-19, Num21:8-9 , 1 Kings 6:23-29 and 1 Kings 7:25-45 all of
which show how images can and were used for good.
Just in case you missed it, in the New Testament
Bible - KJV
John Chapter 3:14-15
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must
the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should
not perish, but have eternal life.
Bible - KJV
Hebrews Chapter 9
5 And over it the cherubim's of glory shadowing the mercy seat; of
which we cannot now speak particularly.
What God forbids is the use of images that are considered by those who
made them to be idols or god's.
Let me help you here:
The Catholic Church has consistently condemned the sin of idolatry.
I think the Second Council of Nicaea (787), which dealt largely with
the question of the religious use of images and icons, was talking
directly to people like you when they said,
"[T]he one who redeemed us from the darkness of idolatrous insanity,
Christ our God, when he took for his bride his holy Catholic Church .
. . promised he would guard her and assured his holy disciples saying,
‘I am with you every day until the consummation of this age.’ . . . To
this gracious offer some people paid no attention; being hoodwinked by
the treacherous foe they abandoned the true line of reasoning . . .
and they failed to distinguish the holy from the profane, asserting
that the icons of our Lord and of his saints were no different from
the wooden images of satanic idols."
The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is
committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that
they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by
praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374).
"Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater
is someone who ‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything
other than God’" (Catechism of the Catholic Church para 2114).
The Church absolutely recognizes and condemns the sin of idolatry.
What you have fail to recognize is the difference between thinking a
piece of stone or plaster is a god and of those who wish to visually
remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their
honor.
--
Mike
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't
like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Saint Augustine
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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