From: liam@valentijn.nu   
      
   Madlove schreef op 4-6-2014 22:48:   
   > Madlove wrote:   
   >> Heh! Notice I said "possibly to the death." I would NOT have wanted to   
   >> see Will leave the series. I was recalling S7 when Buff said she had to   
   >> kill Anya because she had reverted back to her evil self. And during the   
   >> fight Anya asked Buff if she had any friends that she didn't try to kill!   
   >   
   > Wouter Valentijn wrote:   
   >> So, more 'almost to the death', rather than 'possibly to the death'?   
   >   
   > Yes, that would do it! Like when Wesley almost killed Faith after she   
   > went nutso.   
   > Kinda surprising that Whedon didn't have him actually kill her. That's   
   > the type of   
   > thing he does in his shows.   
      
   You mean when they had to transport her to the Council in England? I   
   think he was under orders to bring her in alive. Plus, Wes is not really   
   a cold blooded killer. Not in those days I think.   
      
      
   >   
   > Madlove wrote:   
   >> It would have been interesting to see Will become an anti-villain for   
   >> several more eps and Buff wondering if she would have to kill her.   
   >   
   > Wouter Valentijn wrote:   
   >> What would Will's motivation be?   
   >> Her initial motive was pure vengeance and that was followed by the pain   
   >> of the world that she felt.   
   >   
   > Those two (vengeance and pain) should be enough motivation to do it. :-D   
   > She was only a "bad gal" in the "Villains", "Two To Go", and "Grave"   
   > episodes   
   > but it was Xan who saved the day - not Buff.   
   >   
   > Which makes more sense because there is no way that Buff could have   
   > stopped her at that point. She's a vamp slayer, not an entity killer.   
      
   Well, the Buffster kills demons and other evil as well.   
      
   >   
   > Now that I rethink about it, three eps was the right amount of time for   
   > Will   
   > to be bad. Any more than that and it would've been tedious. However it was   
   > odd that by the next season *everything* was back to normal and there was   
   > little mention of her trying to destroy reality.   
      
   There were several months between that.   
   And there were moments were you could see a glimpse of Dark Willow in   
   season 7.   
      
   >   
   > It would've been more interesting if Will had kept signs of her   
   > transformation   
   > (hair now black?, personality change?) for the remainder of the show.   
      
   I think Dark Willow was still there. Whenever Willow got impatient or if   
   something else irritated her.   
      
   >   
   > Wouter Valentijn wrote:   
   >> You know... I think this Willow arc was kinda 'done over' over at   
   >> 'Warehouse 13', with the arc of Helena Wells wanting to destroy the   
   >> world. Have you seen that?   
   >   
   > Never watched that show. It's too "X-Files" ripoff for me.   
      
   Trust me. It is /nothing/ like the  X-Files. And thank goodness for that!   
   It is way closer to Buffy. WAY closer!   
   Which should be no surprise. One of the creators of that show worked on   
   Buffy. And various guest stars from Buffy as well showed up on Warehouse   
   13.  :-)   
      
   Check out these clips:   
      
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTsJVU-E-BM   
      
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV7HYvwyzoA   
      
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5q4_tnFGT4   
      
   Plus, you'll learn the truth about H.G. Wells! ;-)   
      
   If you loved Buffy, I recommend Warehouse 13. :-)   
      
   >   
   >   
   > Madlove wrote:   
   >> 2. making Drac the bad guy for the whole season, perhaps the final   
   >> season, and have his demise end *all* vamps. Since the show was ending   
   >> soon, this plot "might" have worked.   
   >   
   >   
   > Wouter Valentijn wrote:   
   >> The 'First Evil' was not really a single entity I think. It was more of   
   >> a 'conceptual' being. I compare it to several entities in the Marvel   
   >> Universe, like  'Death' or 'Eternity'.   
   >   
   > Not exactly sure what this means???   
      
   You're not a Marvelite?   
      
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_entity_%28Marvel_Comics%29   
      
      
   > But I seem to recall there was more   
   > than one "first evil" in the show. In fact in the last season they were   
   > sitting   
   > around the house and Anya said something along the lines of, "if I had a   
   > nickel   
   > for every villain who claimed that he was the original source of evil   
   > I'd be rich!"   
   >   
   > :-D   
   >   
   > I don't recall the ep where she said that, but it really made me laff!   
      
   There was only one First Evil. The first time we saw it was in 'Amends'.   
   It tried to make Angel kill himself.   
      
   In 'Showtime'it was said: "It cannot be fought. It cannot be killed. The   
   First Evil has been and always will be, since before the universe was   
   born. Long after there is nothing else, it will go on."   
      
   Could that quote have been from Spike about vampires claiming to have   
   witnessed the Crucifixion? After which he himself claimed to have been   
   at Woodstock. The festival. Not the bird. (see 'School Hard').   
      
   Ah, wait! I've found it.   
   From: 'Bring on the Night':   
      
   Buffy:  Pretty sure. It claimed to be the original evil, the one that   
   came before anything else.   
      
   Anya:  Please, how many times have I heard that line in my demon days?   
   "I'm so rotten, they don't even have a word for it. I'm bad. Baddy bad   
   bad bad. Does it make you horny?" [everyone stares at her] Or terrified.   
   Whatever.   
      
   http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer#Bring_on_the_Night   
      
      
      
      
   >   
   > Wouter Valentijn wrote:   
   >> Vampires don't have one single source.   
   >> The first vampire was made when pure demons were driven from Earth.   
   >> The last demon exiting bit a human and created thus the first vampire.   
   >> It was never said that Dracula was the first vampire or the originator   
   >> of vampirism in the Buffyverse. He was just considered the vampire that   
   >> learned a few gypsy tricks and told too much to Bram Stoker about   
   >> vampires.   
   >> The character of Dracula in the Stoker novel is the most famous vampire   
   >> in fiction to date, but he was not the first.   
   >>   
   >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_literature   
   >>   
   >> I don't think the first vampire, or the creator of the vampires, was   
   >> actually named in the Buffyverse.   
   >>   
   >> Ah... wait...   
   >> It was mentioned in the comics apparently...   
   >>   
   >> http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Maloker   
   >   
   > Ok, then 'bang' goes my idea of having all the vamps die out with Drac. :-D   
   > I had always assumed that he was the first vamp and the originator of the   
   > curse. Didn't know there were others before him.   
      
   He didn't look that old. Think of The Master and Kakistos. If he was   
   based on the real life Vlad Tepes he would be about 500 years old only.   
   Some myths (see The Librarian movies for instance), claim him to be some   
   2000 years old. Because he actually was 'Judas' in that movie.   
      
   And in the above link you can read some about the precursors of the Bram   
   Stoker character. Dracula was not the first.   
      
   >   
   > And it was cool how he turned Xan into Renfield! Since he's a very   
   > charismatic   
   > character it would have made for an interesting story arc if he had   
   > influenced   
   > more people (especially the girls) in town... :-D   
      
   Well, he did have some influence on Buffy.   
      
   Were you a fan of the Hammer movies or Count Yorga?   
      
      
   --   
   Wouter Valentijn http://www.j3v.net   
      
      
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