XPost: alt.tv.star-trek.tos, rec.arts.startrek.current   
   From: not@chance.dude   
      
   "David Johnston"   
   "Wickeddoll"   
   > wrote:   
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>In TNG, we have whole families, and presumably romances on star   
   >>>>>>>>>>ships,   
   >>>>>>>>>>and   
   >>>>>>>>>>Riker and Troi have an on-again-off-again relationship when he is   
   >>>>>>>>>>first   
   >>>>>>>>>>officer and over her in the chain of command.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> He isn't over her in the chain of command.  As political officer she   
   >>>>>>> is coequal with him.  Hence the arrangment of their chairs.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>Um, I beg to differ.  For one thing, remember when that other Captain   
   >>>>>>took   
   >>>>>>over?  He made her wear a Starfleet uniform, since she was Starfleet.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I wasn't saying she was coequal with the Captain.  I was saying she   
   >>>>> was coequal with Riker.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>err no, like Nat said in the bit you snipped, "the XO most certainly has   
   >>>>direct authority over *everyone* except the   
   >>>>Captain."   
   >>>   
   >>> She offered no support for that claim and it isn't inevitable.   
   >>   
   >>You've offered no proof I'm wrong - if you do, I'll concede your point,   
   >>but   
   >>if not, as my late friend Steve would say, "Post proof or retract."   
   >>   
   >>So, what, are you gonna close your eyes, hold your fingers in your ears   
   >>and   
   >>repeat "she's wrong" over and over?  That's basic command structure I'm   
   >>talking about.  I stand by my position that *anyone* who is qualified to   
   >>be   
   >>an acting captain has *full authority over everyone aboard that vessel*   
   >>besides the captain.  I could ask my active duty Navy son-in-law, but I   
   >>already know what he'll say.   
   >>   
   >>If the XO doesn't already have an authoritative stance with *all* of the   
   >>lower crew, he'll be in deep shit if the captain is unavailable or dead.   
   >>I'll ask my SIL to forward the regs, then I'll email it to you, because   
   >>for   
   >>some reason, you can't even consider that maybe this military veteran   
   >>woman   
   >>just *might* know what she's talking about.   
   >   
   > I'm absolutely certain that you know what you are talking about with   
   > regard.  I already knew that that is how the American military works   
   > and that it's the sensible way for it to work.  But TNG's Starfleet is   
   > not the American military and it does some very non-sensible things.   
   >   
   >>You're missing the point.  I'm not talking about the day-to-day *duties*   
   >>of   
   >>the counselor, I'm saying that in the end, he or she *has* to acquiesce to   
   >>the XO's orders regarding the smooth operation of the vessel,   
   >   
   > I understand the basic principle which says that's a good idea, but it   
   > isn't an absolute necessity.  Ships have even been run by committee,   
   > and political officers really didn't need to listen to anyone except   
   > their superiors and the local commanding officer.  And maybe not the   
   > latter, if the P.O. decides to kill him for treason.  Neither of these   
   > alternatives were a good idea, but that didn't make them impossible or   
   > the more sensible alternative inevitable.   
      
   Who's saying they are?!  We're just correcting your assertion that   
   counselors do not have a military chain-of-command.  That's all.   
      
   Natalie   
   --   
   "Wicked little doll, you have no soul"   
   (David Byrne, 1997)   
      
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