From: seanc130@hotmail.com   
      
   "That80sGuy"  wrote   
   >  "Sean Carroll"  done wrote:   
      
   >> What the hell does the fraction of episodes he was in have to do with   
   >> how great a boss he was?   
      
   > The writers obviously felt they could tell their story without Skinner's   
   > involvement and/or point of view more than half the time.   
      
   I still don't see what this has to do with how great a boss character he   
   was. Quantity is totally irrelevant to quality.   
      
   > You're bringing the phrase "kicks ass and takes names" into an argument   
   > against Castillo?  It's obvious you've never watched a single episode of   
   > Miami Vice.   
      
   Um, no, I haven't. Which would be why I at no point made any kind of comment   
   whatsoever on it. I'm sure this Callisto guy is great and all, but that's   
   nothing to do with my point. I was just defending Skinner. This is not a   
   'Zero Sum' game, if you'll pardon the ingenious reference.   
      
   >> Besides which, considering that TXF had 201 episodes and 2 movies, and   
   >> Skinner was in 82 of them and *both* movies -- despite having not even   
   >> been introduced until halfway through episode 21 -- and, in fact,   
   >> appeared in more than *twice* as many episodes as *any* cast member   
   >> besides David and Gillian (the next closest was Robert Patrick, with 40   
   >> episodes) ... I'd say he appeared in goddamn plenty enough episodes to   
   >> deserve recognition as a major part of the show.   
      
   > Blasphemous profanity merely demonstrates that your argument is based   
   > purely on personal prejudices rather than the facts.   
      
   Blasphemous profanity?? Oh, you mean when I said 'goddamn'? LOL. That hasn't   
   counted as a 'profanity' in about 20 years. It's just a little bit of a   
   'spice word'.   
      
   Besides, my attitude to swearing is summed up by Henry Drummond in the play   
   'Inherit the Wind': 'I don't swear just for the heck of it. I figure   
   language is a poor enough means of communication as it is, so we ought to   
   use all the words we've got. Besides, there are damn few words that everyone   
   understands.'   
      
   >>> - Castillo was a strong enough character that four or five episodes   
   >>> were centered on him; I recall one Skinner-based ep at best.   
      
   >> You have very bad recal. Immediately off the top of my head I can list   
   >> 'Avatar', 'Zero Sum', 'SR 819', and (arguably, partly) 'Brand X' and   
   >> 'Hollywood AD'.   
   >>   
   >> And that's *before* going to my episode guide and checking   
   >> systematically. And not even counting all the other great moments he   
   >> had in numerous episodes that weren't entirely focused on him, of which   
   >> I listed only a very few examples above.   
      
   > Please do go to your episode guide and check systematically.   
      
   Only if you make it a pretty *pretty* please, with a cherry on top.   
      
   > Better yet,   
   > watch your first episode of Vice.  Try "Bushido" - it was directed by   
   > Olmos   
   > (another arrow missing from Pillegi's quiver).   
      
   Again, I'm sure this Castillo guy is just great. But he has nothing to do   
   with how cool Skinner is.   
      
   >> I have no idea how you could have possibly come to this conclusion,   
   >> unless you simply did not actually watch The X-Files. Skinner was   
   >> perhaps the most subtly and complexly shaded character on the show,   
   >> constantly struggling to maintain his position through divided   
   >> loyalties and responsibilities, trying to do right while also toeing   
   >> the bureaucratic line.   
      
   > In other words he was drawn as the consummate flip-flopper, able to either   
   > stall or advance M&S's actions in order to help an episode fit the   
   > necessary timeframe.   
      
   Um, not really. You might think that if you were judging solely on surface   
   appearances from semi-casual watching. But if you really studied the   
   character, and his role throughout the show, you'd see there's SO much more   
   to him than that.   
      
   >>> - Castillo is far and away the fanbase's favorite secondary character;   
   >>> most   
   >>> X-philes prefer CSM, RatBoy, Deep Throat, or TLG to Skinner.   
      
   >> I seriously doubt you can present *any* sort of evidence whatsoever for   
   >> this bald-faced assertion.   
   >>   
   >> Trust me -- Skinner has ALWAYS been extraordinarily well loved around   
   >> these parts, especially among the female X-Philes.   
      
   > And how many have stood up for Skinner here, besides you?  Zero.   
      
   Um, have you noticed that there are only like 3 posts a week in this group   
   right now? People can't speak up if they're not in the room.   
      
   > Oh, and "Well loved" != "Favorite."  Thanks for conceding my point.   
      
   I never said anything of the sort. You seemed to be implying that Skinner   
   wasn't all that great just because he isn't everybody's 'favourite'; I   
   merely pointed out that he does, however, certainly have a significant and   
   passionate fan base. You're the one talking about 'favourites'.   
      
   >> What the hell does that have to do with the quality of his rôle, or its   
   >> importance to the show and to pop culture? Do you *honestly* believe   
   >> that those little statues are awarded based on objective merit??   
   >> **Seriously**???   
      
   > I see.  So one shmoe's blog which agree's with you is God's Word, while an   
   > Emmy Award is worthless.  The irony meter overheats.   
      
   I'm sure I could come up with a great retort to that, if I could figure out   
   what the hell you were talking about.   
      
   >> In short, I hate to rain on your parade, but your arguments are all   
   >> either extraordinarily weak, completely irrelevant, just plain flat-out   
   >> untrue, or all of the above. Skinner deserves every bit of recognition   
   >> he gets on that list, and then some, regardless of whatever bizarre   
   >> personal inferiority complex you have that drives you to rail against   
   >> him so.   
      
   > Again, your having to resort to personal ad hominem attack demonstrates   
   > that you yourself don't even believe what you're writing.   
      
   I apologise if I went a bit ad hominem. I can get a little overly aggressive   
   during arguments, and be a bit of an ass without fully realising it.   
      
   I guess I felt that your post was kind of a personal attack on Skinner, so I   
   responded in an argumentative way. I'm sorry I wasn't more restrained and   
   polite. As a high-functioning autistic, I struggle with such things often --   
   I have tendencies to be very mean and condescending sometimes. But it's not   
   meant to be personal.   
      
   > Let's face it - your response was 86 lines and not a word you wrote   
   > concerned Castillo, Olmos, or Miami Vice. I've watched every episode of   
   > BOTH MV and TXF; you've obviously never watched a single ep of Vice.   
      
   Um, I'm aware of that. Because I know nothing about them, and have said   
   nothing about them. I was just talking about Skinner.   
      
   You seem to be under the impression that my quibble with you was in your   
   choice of this Miami Vice guy over Skinner. It was not. I was merely trying   
   to defend Skinner as worthy of being on that list. I have no idea whom he   
   would be under or whom he would be over, rank-wise, and I really don't care.   
   (Of course, he was often under and over both Mulder and Krycek, but that's a   
   whole nother story.)   
      
   --   
   --Sean   
   http://spclsd223.livejournal.com   
      
      
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