XPost: or.politics, talk.politics.guns, az.politics
From: meso@mer.ica
On 5/2/2014 9:22 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
> Mayan Stonebird wrote in news:ljusrj$88b$4@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 5/1/2014 6:04 PM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>> Mayan Stonebird wrote in news:ljukrt$t48$1@dont-
> email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 5/1/2014 5:17 PM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>>>> GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote in
>>>>> news:mkj5m9tdgf5bv3ngpc5onhjev4fq355klf@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 01 May 2014 16:33:40 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote in
>>>>>>> news:gnc5m9tvp8vb6jkbkuoio1kl7ekdc7hjde@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 01 May 2014 13:02:17 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 01 May 2014 08:33:53 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 01 May 2014 07:56:16 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 01 May 2014 07:35:21 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 01 May 2014 06:46:15 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 18:53:44 +0000 (UTC), Baxter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Democratic Representative Steven Horsford says people are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> living in fear, under the constant presence of armed
> militia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> groups.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [chuckle]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, we're all petrified.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Armed gangs roaming the streets might not bother you but it
>>>>>>>>>>>> does bother Bunkerville residents who want their town back.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Did they take a vote?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They certainly didn't take a vote in these creatures crawling
>>>>>>>>>> out of the woodwork and invading their community did they?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But you're OK with feds stopping and searching on lonely
> highways
>>>>>>>>> miles from he border, right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If there is reasonable suspicion of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just what do you consider "reasonable suspicion"? Driving a car
>>>>>>> while hispanic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> profiling is only allowed at the actual international border.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Border search exception
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Despite federal law allowing certain federal agents to conduct
>>>>>> suspicionless search and seizures within 100 miles of the border,
> [5]
>>>>>> the Supreme Court has clearly and repeatedly confirmed that the
>>>>>> border search exception applies only at international borders and
>>>>>> their functional equivalent (such as international airports).[4]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers, U.S.
>>>>>> Immigration and Customs Enforcement Special Agents, and U.S. Coast
>>>>>> Guard officers (E4 grade and above) who are all customs officers
>>>>>> (those tasked with enforcing Title 19 of the United States Code)
>>>>>> with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, are permitted to
>>>>>> search travelers and their belongings at the American border
> without
>>>>>> probable cause or a warrant.[6]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pursuant to this authority, customs officers may generally stop
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> search the property of any traveler entering or exiting the United
>>>>>> States at random, or even based largely on ethnic profiles.[7]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, addressing a challenge to
>>>>>> Customs' authority to search electronic files in United States v.
>>>>>> Ickes, held that there is no First Amendment exception to the
> border
>>>>>> search doctrine for expressive materials .[11] The Court based its
>>>>>> finding in part on the demands of protecting the nation from
>>>>>> terrorist threats that may cross the American border in expressive
>>>>>> materials.[12] in its analysis, the Court stated:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The border search doctrine is justified by the longstanding
>>>>>> right
>>>>>> of the sovereign to protect itself. Particularly in today's world,
>>>>>> national security interests may require uncovering terrorist
>>>>>> communications, which are inherently “expressive.” Following
> Ickes's
>>>>>> logic would create a sanctuary at the border for all expressive
>>>>>> material-even for terrorist plans. This would undermine the
>>>>>> compelling reasons that lie at the very heart of the border search
>>>>>> doctrine."[
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Supreme Court expressly did not rule what level of suspicion
>>>>>> would be necessary for a strip, body-cavity, or involuntary x-ray
>>>>>> search,[21] though they did say that the only two standards for
>>>>>> Fourth Amendment purposes short of a warrant were "reasonable
>>>>>> suspicion" and "probable cause" (rejecting a "clear indication"
>>>>>> standard).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the border search context, reasonable suspicion means that the
>>>>>> facts known to the customs officer at the time of the search,
>>>>>> combined with the officer's reasonable inferences from those facts,
>>>>>> provides the officer with a particularized and objective basis for
>>>>>> suspecting that the search will reveal contraband.[22]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To form a basis for reasonable suspicion, a customs officer may
> rely
>>>>>> on his training and prior experience, and may rely on entirely
>>>>>> innocent factors, if the totality of the circumstances provide the
>>>>>> officer with reasonable suspicion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You can read all that crap you wish, but that isn't how the BP is
>>>>> acting. Residents of Arivaca and Sahaurita and even Green Valley are
>>>>> fed up with them and want the checkpoint abandoned. They have little
>>>>> or no problem with activites down around the border. Most of them
>>>>> feel that is where the Border Patrol should have its checkpoints,
> not
>>>>> 70 miles away with open country all around.
>>>>>
>>>> Do they still have that checkpoint up by Tubac?
>>>
>>> Yep....that is the one bothering Arivaca, Sahaurita, etc...
>>
>> Ok, a real PITA for vacationers, btw.
>
> Yep
Especially if you have a camper or motorhome - they love to "tour" those...
>
>>> The one I
>>> mentioned 70 miles (by road) is between Elfrida and Kansas Settlement.
>>
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