XPost: alt.abortion, talk.politics.guns, alt.politics.republicans   
   XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics   
   From: noway@nowhere.com   
      
   On 8/28/2024 3:28 PM, Just Wondering wrote:   
   > On 8/27/2024 6:05 PM, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:   
   >> On 8/27/2024 2:11 PM, Just Wondering wrote:   
   >>> On 8/27/2024 2:03 PM, Attila wrote:   
   >>>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2024 12:35:03 -0600, Just Wondering wrote:   
   >>   
   >> {snip} (snipped the reality that full-ass grown up human abortion   
   >> survivors exist.)   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> The fact that any of them even exists shows that fetuses   
   >>>>>>> are unborn humans.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> No one questions the species involved - simple DNA proves   
   >>>>>> that.  The issue is at what point an individual human being   
   >>>>>> comes into existence.  Historically it has never been prior   
   >>>>>> to live birth.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> Historically you are wrong.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The laws involving a fetus and a born child prove you wrong.   
   >>>> After birth a child can inherit, be a tax deduction, be   
   >>>> counted in a census, own property, be a citizen under the   
   >>>> proper laws, and need a passport, again under certain laws   
   >>>> in certain locations among other things.  None of this can   
   >>>> apply to a fetus.   
   >>>>   
   >>> There's your problem.  You write of statutes.  I speak of   
   >>> biological reality.   
   >>   
   >> There is no "biological reality" about whether a fetus is a person.   
   >> And personhood, not "human life" or "unborn human" is the debate.   
   >   
   > Please try to keep up, this thread is and has always been about   
   > the biological reality of unborn humans, NOT the legal fiction   
   > of "personhood".   
      
   You are wrong.   
      
   In the context of the abortion debate, it matters far, far more whether   
   a fetus is a person than it does whether a fetus is a human. As such   
   whenever abortion is debated and someone says a fetus is a human, the   
   purpose of that statement is to argue for fetal rights, which depend on   
   fetal personhood. And often, "human" is used to intentionally obfuscate   
   the true nature of the issue.   
      
   The opponents of the Arizona measure should be honest and call the fetus   
   an unborn person.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)