XPost: alt.abortion, talk.politics.guns, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh   
   XPost: sac.politics   
   From: me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net   
      
   "Attila"  wrote in message   
   news:2a7ldjtciqa5ehsmil8ffmnr3pckil7fom@4ax.com...   
   > On Thu, 5 Sep 2024 20:07:35 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth   
   >  in alt.abortion with message-id   
   >  wrote:   
   >   
   >>On 9/5/2024 8:45 AM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> Nope, I just pointed out the ramifications if infant rights only exist   
   >>> post birth. Which would also mean, you could charge someone with murder   
   >>> for killing an unborn child.. since they are by the standard set.. not a   
   >>> person.   
   >>>   
   >>> So.. Do they have rights prior to birth or not?   
   >>>   
   >>> You can't have it both ways at the same time.   
   >>   
   >>A fetus has some rights that increase as the pregnancy progresses, but   
   >>it does not achieve personhood until birth.   
   >>   
   >>For example, you can logically and consistently 1) charge someone with   
   >>murder of a non-person fetus if it is intentionally killed without the   
   >>woman's permission at any stage of the pregnancy,   
   >   
   > Only if the local laws state this.  It is not automatically   
   > true everywhere.   
      
   True, we could say much the same about slavery.   
      
      
   >> 2) permit abortion   
   >>before fetal viability for any reason because the woman's liberty rights   
   >>are more important than the life of a non-viable fetus,   
   >   
   > Historically a fetus has no rights.   
      
   Neither did slaves   
      
   >> and 3) permit   
   >>abortion after fetal viability only to save the life or health of the   
   >>woman because her life and health are important than the life of a   
   >>viable fetus.   
   >   
   > Only if the local laws state this.   
      
   ... or state law.. or even federal law..   
      
   >>> Agreed.. but now that we've set a basic notion that a some point between   
   >>> conception and birth the fetus does achieve personhood   
   >>   
   >>Per above, I do not agree with that claim.   
   >   
   > Historically all persons have been born alive.   
      
   And right there you lost much of the creditability you might have had.   
      
   Research and understand the meaning of "Stillbirth"   
      
   https://www.marchofdimes.org/find-support/topics/miscarriage-los   
   -grief/stillbirth   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)