XPost: van.general, bc.politics   
   From: rmck@yatestownbc.com   
      
   "Canuck57"  wrote in message   
   news:KGgDn.135308$mn6.115715@newsfe07.iad...   
   > On 01/05/2010 7:46 PM, Robert MacKenzie wrote:   
   >   
   >>>> As far as independents go, it wouldn't work. 45 independent voices   
   >>>> would   
   >>>> mean nothing would get done.   
   >>>   
   >>> And no new taxes. ;)   
   >>   
   >> Don't be too sure about that. Taxes come and go, having independents   
   >> would   
   >> not mean an absolute abolition of any new taxes.   
   >   
   > I might even agree with that.  But perhaps get a more honest government.   
      
   Depends on what honesty might be. Gordon Wilson for example had that   
   Democratic Alliance Party   
   and he wasn't particularly honest. He sold out to a cabinet post in the NDP.   
      
   >   
   > The big problem today isn't that it is Liberal, NDP or Conservative, it is   
   > the corruption and government inefficiencies.  I would vote for anyone   
   > that I thought was less corrupt.  Given independents are usually not   
   > corrupted by big money, that is why I vote for them.   
      
   Don't be too sure. Civic politicians are largely independent, but a few   
   listen to money when it speaks.   
      
      
   >   
   > Because when government become too much of a burden on people, it is   
   > because of union lethargy and inefficiency, politicial corruption and   
   > incorrect priorities of government.   
      
   True.   
      
   > Todays party politicians accept that the corruption is a normal way of   
   > government business even though it does not have to be that way.   
      
   Not bad.   
      
   > Take Jaffer, many if not all politicians think his only crime was getting   
   > caught.  When in reality he is the tip of the iceberg being handed out to   
   > foster the perception that Ottawa has some integrity.  Be it Jaffer,   
   > Mulroney or Liberal ad-scammers that is how Ottawa does business.   
      
      
   Jaffer is an odd example. Not all of them are like him.  I've met a few   
   political hacks that like the power and influence, but   
   don't give them my time.   
      
      
      
   > And the root cause is Ottawa has too much of our money and attracts the   
   > corruption.  The rules of why and how of taxation have been bastardized to   
   > support this corruption.  Getting government out of corporate subsidies,   
   > money for nothing and buddy schemes is essential for it to become   
   > efficient and not corrupt.   
      
   Not bad.   
      
   > NDP, Lib and Cons -- none will clean up the mess they collectively   
   > created.  Neither federally or provincially.   
      
   Don't expect any independents to do the same either.   
      
      
   >>> But out of the mess, a new party will form as alliances are made.   
   >>   
   >> Been down that road. All that would do is further seperate and stagnate   
   >> goverment, also opens the barn door for "deals".   
   >   
   > Not really.  I sit harder to corrupt 2 leaders or 4?  At least it drives   
   > up the costs of putting party leaders in the pockets for favours.   
      
   Obviously haven't been around much. They do happen.   
      
      
   >>> Sometimes having a minority or dead locked government is a good thing as   
   >>> the last thing the leder wants to do is face an election on taxing   
   >>> people   
   >>> even more.   
   >>   
   >> Minority governments have passed tax initatives.   
   >   
   > Yes, but rarely. And more often than not tax reductions not increases. For   
   > example majority gets GST, minority gets GST reduction.  As no politician   
   > wants the opposition making an election on tax increases while it is fresh   
   > in voters heads.   
      
   Partially true.   
      
   > We are a managed herd.   
   >   
   >>>> As far as new parties go, we've been down that road before so many   
   >>>> times   
   >>>> there's ruts in the asphalt. The BC Conservatives (Chris Delaney) were   
   >>>> originally for the HST, now they aren't.   
   >>>   
   >>> Sure sign of a opporunistic ass hole, flip-flop.  Means he has no morals   
   >>> or conviction.   
   >>   
   >> Just like vanderZalm. He brought in the Property Transfer Tax without any   
   >> consultation and you're still paying it when you buy a previously owned   
   >> home.   
   >   
   > And had a majority government.  Should it have been a minority with   
   > independants carrying the balance it is doubtful it would have passed.   
      
   It would have passed. Minority goverments are very rare in B.C. There hasn't   
   been a real independent elected in BC   
   prior to Vicky Huntington since the end of WWII. There's been a few ending   
   up that way, but originally had a party   
   label stuck on them when they were first elected.   
      
      
   >>>>> Excesive taxation is modern days slavery.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Partially true, but those taxes pay for your sewage pipes, the fire   
   >>>> department, your roads, your police, etc. etc.   
   >>>   
   >>> For the small percentage that actually makes it to these common   
   >>> essential   
   >>> services, yes, that part is good.  But that is only the small part.   
   >>   
   >> Also pays for highways bridges, a large amount of big stuff.   
   >   
   > No one has problems with the common good, where most people have problems   
   > with is the huge amount not spent on the common good and the sheer   
   > inefficiencies of government.   
      
   Not bad.   
      
   > When efficiencies are measured, government spends very little on common   
   > good.  Ottawa spends more on itself than CPP/OAS/healthcare/education   
   > combined.  YET IDIOTS LIKE YOU DON'T QUESTION IT and wose yet, vte to   
   > support it.   
      
   Don't yell.   
      
   >>> People date not take a rational look at their governments budget, they   
   >>> might get very surprised where the money really goes.   
   >>   
   >> I've seen where the money comes from and goes.   
   >   
   > Good, then you know or are a liar.  Governmetn waste is everywhere   
   > starting right at the top.   
      
   Careful there, boy. Don't go around calling people liars unless there is   
   specific evidence of it. You're probably no choir boy sitting to the left of   
   the bishop yourself.   
      
   >>>>> Are we being heard or are we a herd?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Both. Depends on what kind of animal you are.   
   >>>   
   >>> Voters are not heard in this country, they are a herd of tax paying   
   >>> sheep.   
   >>   
   >> Well if you have a workable solution that's been tried successfully in   
   >> other   
   >> countries, we'd love to hear it, and better yet put it as a policy   
   >> suggestion   
   >> to one of the major parties. You'll never see any parliament with 100%   
   >> independents anywhere in the Commonwealth.   
   >   
   > Yes, less government footprint on the taxpayer/workers and better more   
   > efficient government, like China.   
      
   China has a totalitarian communist goverment. There is no opposition nor   
   democratic means there. What you see in Shangahi and Beijing is recent   
   development, but alot of China is not like the shiny new building cities.   
      
   > --   
   > Are we being heard or are we a herd?   
      
   Is this a farm? or a ranch?   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)