XPost: van.general, bc.politics   
   From: gregpcarr@yahoo.ca   
      
   On Mon, 03 May 2010 22:11:03 -0600, Canuck57    
   wrote:   
      
   >On 02/05/2010 5:38 PM, Robert MacKenzie wrote:   
   >> "Canuck57"  wrote in message   
   >> news:KGgDn.135308$mn6.115715@newsfe07.iad...   
   >>> On 01/05/2010 7:46 PM, Robert MacKenzie wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>>> As far as independents go, it wouldn't work. 45 independent voices   
   >>>>>> would   
   >>>>>> mean nothing would get done.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> And no new taxes. ;)   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Don't be too sure about that. Taxes come and go, having independents   
   >>>> would   
   >>>> not mean an absolute abolition of any new taxes.   
   >>>   
   >>> I might even agree with that.  But perhaps get a more honest government.   
   >>   
   >> Depends on what honesty might be. Gordon Wilson for example had that   
   >> Democratic Alliance Party   
   >> and he wasn't particularly honest. He sold out to a cabinet post in the NDP.   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> The big problem today isn't that it is Liberal, NDP or Conservative, it is   
   >>> the corruption and government inefficiencies.  I would vote for anyone   
   >>> that I thought was less corrupt.  Given independents are usually not   
   >>> corrupted by big money, that is why I vote for them.   
   >>   
   >> Don't be too sure. Civic politicians are largely independent, but a few   
   >> listen to money when it speaks.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> Because when government become too much of a burden on people, it is   
   >>> because of union lethargy and inefficiency, politicial corruption and   
   >>> incorrect priorities of government.   
   >>   
   >> True.   
   >>   
   >>> Todays party politicians accept that the corruption is a normal way of   
   >>> government business even though it does not have to be that way.   
   >>   
   >> Not bad.   
   >>   
   >>> Take Jaffer, many if not all politicians think his only crime was getting   
   >>> caught.  When in reality he is the tip of the iceberg being handed out to   
   >>> foster the perception that Ottawa has some integrity.  Be it Jaffer,   
   >>> Mulroney or Liberal ad-scammers that is how Ottawa does business.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Jaffer is an odd example. Not all of them are like him.  I've met a few   
   >> political hacks that like the power and influence, but   
   >> don't give them my time.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>> And the root cause is Ottawa has too much of our money and attracts the   
   >>> corruption.  The rules of why and how of taxation have been bastardized to   
   >>> support this corruption.  Getting government out of corporate subsidies,   
   >>> money for nothing and buddy schemes is essential for it to become   
   >>> efficient and not corrupt.   
   >>   
   >> Not bad.   
   >>   
   >>> NDP, Lib and Cons -- none will clean up the mess they collectively   
   >>> created.  Neither federally or provincially.   
   >>   
   >> Don't expect any independents to do the same either.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>>> But out of the mess, a new party will form as alliances are made.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Been down that road. All that would do is further seperate and stagnate   
   >>>> goverment, also opens the barn door for "deals".   
   >>>   
   >>> Not really.  I sit harder to corrupt 2 leaders or 4?  At least it drives   
   >>> up the costs of putting party leaders in the pockets for favours.   
   >>   
   >> Obviously haven't been around much. They do happen.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>>> Sometimes having a minority or dead locked government is a good thing as   
   >>>>> the last thing the leder wants to do is face an election on taxing   
   >>>>> people   
   >>>>> even more.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Minority governments have passed tax initatives.   
   >>>   
   >>> Yes, but rarely. And more often than not tax reductions not increases. For   
   >>> example majority gets GST, minority gets GST reduction.  As no politician   
   >>> wants the opposition making an election on tax increases while it is fresh   
   >>> in voters heads.   
   >>   
   >> Partially true.   
   >>   
   >>> We are a managed herd.   
   >>>   
   >>>>>> As far as new parties go, we've been down that road before so many   
   >>>>>> times   
   >>>>>> there's ruts in the asphalt. The BC Conservatives (Chris Delaney) were   
   >>>>>> originally for the HST, now they aren't.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Sure sign of a opporunistic ass hole, flip-flop.  Means he has no morals   
   >>>>> or conviction.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Just like vanderZalm. He brought in the Property Transfer Tax without any   
   >>>> consultation and you're still paying it when you buy a previously owned   
   >>>> home.   
   >>>   
   >>> And had a majority government.  Should it have been a minority with   
   >>> independants carrying the balance it is doubtful it would have passed.   
   >>   
   >> It would have passed. Minority goverments are very rare in B.C. There hasn't   
   >> been a real independent elected in BC   
   >> prior to Vicky Huntington since the end of WWII. There's been a few ending   
   >> up that way, but originally had a party   
   >> label stuck on them when they were first elected.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> Excesive taxation is modern days slavery.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Partially true, but those taxes pay for your sewage pipes, the fire   
   >>>>>> department, your roads, your police, etc. etc.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> For the small percentage that actually makes it to these common   
   >>>>> essential   
   >>>>> services, yes, that part is good.  But that is only the small part.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Also pays for highways bridges, a large amount of big stuff.   
   >>>   
   >>> No one has problems with the common good, where most people have problems   
   >>> with is the huge amount not spent on the common good and the sheer   
   >>> inefficiencies of government.   
   >>   
   >> Not bad.   
   >>   
   >>> When efficiencies are measured, government spends very little on common   
   >>> good.  Ottawa spends more on itself than CPP/OAS/healthcare/education   
   >>> combined.  YET IDIOTS LIKE YOU DON'T QUESTION IT and wose yet, vte to   
   >>> support it.   
   >>   
   >> Don't yell.   
   >>   
   >>>>> People date not take a rational look at their governments budget, they   
   >>>>> might get very surprised where the money really goes.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I've seen where the money comes from and goes.   
   >>>   
   >>> Good, then you know or are a liar.  Governmetn waste is everywhere   
   >>> starting right at the top.   
   >>   
   >> Careful there, boy. Don't go around calling people liars unless there is   
   >> specific evidence of it. You're probably no choir boy sitting to the left of   
   >> the bishop yourself.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> Are we being heard or are we a herd?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Both. Depends on what kind of animal you are.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Voters are not heard in this country, they are a herd of tax paying   
   >>>>> sheep.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Well if you have a workable solution that's been tried successfully in   
   >>>> other   
   >>>> countries, we'd love to hear it, and better yet put it as a policy   
   >>>> suggestion   
   >>>> to one of the major parties. You'll never see any parliament with 100%   
   >>>> independents anywhere in the Commonwealth.   
   >>>   
   >>> Yes, less government footprint on the taxpayer/workers and better more   
   >>> efficient government, like China.   
   >>   
   >> China has a totalitarian communist goverment. There is no opposition nor   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)