From: Some@Guy.com   
      
   JF Mezei wrote:   
      
   > > So what does it matter what the Gardaley software does?   
   >   
   > Does GardaLey mereley observe who was in a bar (torrent tracker)   
   > at a specific time ?  Or do they actually monitor sho actually   
   > performs a full upload   
      
   My BT client shows me all the machines that I'm connected to (their IP   
   addresses) and what percentage of the file(s) that each of them have,   
   and the rate (in kb/sec) that I am uploading (obtaining) data from each   
   one.  It is trivial to observe the rate at which each of them is   
   obtaining the file(s), and to know when they have obtained 100% of the   
   file(s).   
      
   Do you doubt that GardaLey can also do that?   
      
   But I wouldn't make a big deal as to who has obtained 100% of the data   
   (vs something less than 100%) because I think that the primary objective   
   for Voltage is to show the court who is UPLOADING (making available)   
   their works - because the "making available" aspect is seen as the   
   bigger "sin" in copyright law.   
      
   > If it merely observes who is in a bar at a perticular time, it has   
   > no proof of who actually uploaded data.   
      
   As I ask above: If my BT client can show me who has what percentage of   
   the data, and I can observe how those percentages change over time, and   
   if I can also see which IP's are actually providing me with with data,   
   then again I'd have to conclude that it is technically possible for the   
   GardaLey software to be able to obtain (and log) that same information.   
      
   > And how do we know that this Canipre guy didn't just generate IP   
   > addresses randomly from within Teksavvy IP ranges and then   
   > pretended they were collected via Garda Ley ?   
      
   For one thing, someone at Canipre would be incredibly stupid to lie to   
   the court about how their software operates.   
      
   And another reason why their software *probably* doesn't fake the data   
   is because the real data is easily obtainable without needing to fake   
   it.   
      
   I think a better argument to make against Voltage is to ask them why   
   they don't pay Canipre to poison these torrents to make them worthless.   
   Poisoning a torrent has immediate effect in accomplishing relief against   
   financial loss without the costs associated with court proceedings.   
      
   I continue to note that you absolutely do not in any way want to talk   
   about the Tek Savvy side of this equation - the reliability or accuracy   
   of their IP logs and how (or if) that issue would come up in court.   
      
   Has that aspect never come up in any court proceeding for any torrent   
   case (either US or Canada) in the past?   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)