58196620   
   XPost: aus.legal, misc.legal, uk.legal   
   From: deadmailbox@beeb.net   
      
   dotcom wrote:   
   > On Aug 30, 9:58 pm, "The Todal"  wrote:   
   >> dotcom wrote:   
   >>> On Aug 30, 9:02 pm, "Norman Wells"  wrote:   
   >>>> dotcom wrote:   
   >>>>> On Aug 30, 8:37 pm, "Norman Wells"  wrote:   
   >>>>>> Doug wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 30 Aug, 03:52, "¦ Reality Check© ¦"  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> "dotcom"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>>>> So can a judge really kick you out of court for not standing   
   >>>>>>>>> for him?. And what justification would he have if I was   
   >>>>>>>>> otherwise   
   >>>>>>>>> just sitting quietly minding my own business. Where would I   
   >>>>>>>>> find the   
   >>>>>>>>> law that   
   >>>>>>>>> says I have to stand?   
   >>>>>>> Yes if you don't comply with the ritual you can expect to be   
   >>>>>>> punished for it. You are supposed to wear a suit to make   
   >>>>>>> yourself look respectable and law-abiding and show due   
   >>>>>>> deference to demonstrate your acceptance of the process and its   
   >>>>>>> decision   
   >>>>>>> making.   
   >>>>>>> It is a form of blackmail, "Do as we want or else". Reminds me   
   >>>>>>> of   
   >>>>>>> my school days.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> And so it should, because it's the grown-up version, which we   
   >>>>>> adults call 'society'.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> Like it or not, it's the will of the people, expressed through   
   >>>>>> the democratic process, that these people should have authority   
   >>>>>> over   
   >>>>>> you. And, like it or not, these people can make life pretty   
   >>>>>> unpleasant for you.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> If you fancy yourself as a martyr, that's OK and perfectly   
   >>>>>> allowed.   
   >>>>>> In fact it would be quite amusing, so I won't discourage you. If   
   >>>>>> you don't, however, the best advice is to try to minimise the   
   >>>>>> impact,   
   >>>>>> and that means showing conformity with the process, even if it   
   >>>>>> means   
   >>>>>> you have to publicly compromise your precious principles.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> Your choice.   
   >>   
   >>>>> precious principles Norman? you mean like honesty, respect for the   
   >>>>> truth and justice?   
   >>   
   >>>> No, none of those are compromised in the least by wearing a suit or   
   >>>> standing when the judge enters the court. Try again.   
   >>   
   >>>>> I think you are a bit confused about the meaning of authority. My   
   >>>>> boss at work has authority over   
   >>>>> me , I respect that, but it doesn mean I have to bow to him, or   
   >>>>> stand when he enters the room, or call him your worship.   
   >>   
   >>>> If that's what he wants, however, your choice is to comply or   
   >>>> suffer whatever consequences he has the power to inflict. Or   
   >>>> leave. But   
   >>>> that's seldom an option in a courtroom.   
   >>   
   >>>>> The crap that goes   
   >>>>> on in courts is not about authority , society or democracy its   
   >>>>> about the pompous asses that call themselves lawyers and judges,   
   >>>>> and I wouldnt trust any of them as far as I could kick them..   
   >>   
   >>>> But that's all irrelevant. These people have power over you. You   
   >>>> may   
   >>>> not like it, but it's a fact. They can do things to you that you   
   >>>> won't like, and society will uphold them in doing so. Complain as   
   >>>> much as you like, therefore, it's still best to conform.- Hide   
   >>>> quoted text -   
   >>   
   >>> Or just maybe Norman they dont have the power you think they do?   
   >>> 20 posts so far and no one has yet referred to any legislation that   
   >>> says you have to stand   
   >>> when a judge walks in the room, or that he can punish you for not   
   >>> doing so.   
   >>   
   >> And there is no law that obliges you to address the judge as "your   
   >> worship" or "your honour" or "my lord".   
   >>   
   >> It's merely a convention among lawyers. Non-lawyers can try to   
   >> imitate the lawyers if they want to, or not. The judge won't give a   
   >> shit about what you call him, so long as it's reasonably polite (so   
   >> avoid calling him "you idiot"). His job is to make a fair decision   
   >> based on the evidence presented to him, and to comply with the   
   >> overriding objective which is to ensure that justice is done and   
   >> that lawyers don't obtain an unfair advantage over unrepresented   
   >> litigants. In an English courtroom (ie England and Wales at any   
   >> rate) he will do that job generally very well, even if you happen to   
   >> believe, wrongly, that judges are pompous asses or that they are   
   >> biased.   
   >>   
   >> If you are rude to a judge, he'll probably ignore that too. If you   
   >> lose your case and you swear at him and call him names he'll tell   
   >> you he understands your disappointment and will not start   
   >> threatening you with contempt of court or prison.   
   >>   
   >> Try going to a trial sometime.- Hide quoted text -   
   >   
   > Todal , I am commenting here on a case where an Australian magistrate   
   > has said he will eject any member of the public gallery who refuses to   
   > stand for him. If that is not being a pompous ass then what is?   
      
   It's being a pompous ass, for sure. It wouldn't happen in England though.   
      
   In England, I think he'd be rebuked by the Court Service and told to behave   
   himself.   
      
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