Forums before death by AOL, social media and spammers... "We can't have nice things"
|    can.legal    |    Debating Canuck legal system quirks    |    10,932 messages    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
|    Message 9,739 of 10,932    |
|    John Turmel to All    |
|    TURMEL: Sarah Spottiswood Pre-Trial slat    |
|    02 Mar 13 10:05:45    |
      From: johnturmel@yahoo.com              Jct: We didn't know this was a Case Management hearing until       Judge Rabley said that he was the Case Management Judge       whose goal was to organize the trial so no time would be       wasted.              Again, it was a fascinating juxtaposition with this tiny       demurely-dressed (white blouse and black skirt) teenager       (small but fast, she came 6th in in the Ontario 800 meter       race last month) fighting to avoid a being branded a       criminal for life for care-giving her crippled dad by       carrying his bags of meds out to the car.              The judge gave her his opinion, and the trial judge may not       agree, and I don't agree, that:       1) she didn't have standing to challenge the MMAR because       she wasn't sick;       2) Mike's interests would be in conflict with hers and he       might not even be allowed to attend! He said she could argue       that it was her dad's pot and she was just there," (exactly       what happened, she was just charged as the usually       extortion) and might not want to point the finger at your       dad if he's in the room.              There is going to be a pre-trial and the Crown Kim Johnson       indicated they were going to be calling 12 witnesses! Judge       Rabley wondered if that wasn't going to be a little       duplicative. Then he asked Sarah if she was challenging the       evidence. She said no, she was challenging the       constitutionality of the law.              So he told the Crown to go prepare an Agreed Statement of       Facts for Sarah to sign and stood the matter down.              Well, it took the Crown a couple of hours to write up a 3       page Statement of Facts which we looked over and found to be       not objectionable.              So back in court, Sarah signed the Statement on each page       and then the judge asked how many witnesses the Crown would       be needing. Ms. Johnson now said three. Okay, less wasted       time though I can't imagine what the three might say now       that Sarah has agreed to their facts. She might be able to       have a little fun. Imagine the sharp kid asking the judge:       Do we really need to hear from this witness since I already       agreed to what he's going to say?" Har har har. There's       really no need for witnesses at all once there's an Agreed       Statement of Facts so the Crown has opened up an avenue of       humor when the time comes. What's the judge going to say? "I       want to hear what was admitted on paper orally?" Har har       har. Not a chance. So Sarah gets to have the Crown's three       witnesses thrown out as irrelevant! Won't that look cute.              During the break, I'd explained to Sarah that there would be       a conflict that could prompt her not to use the "it's not       mine" defence if dad was also using the "it's not mine"       defence, both pushing possession away. Conflict. But this       isn't push-push, it's push-pull. So she raised the issue and       explained to the judge how, yes, she was arguing it wasn't       hers but that dad had filed a motion for the Return of the       Controlled Substance because it was his. No conflict. The       judge disagreed. Maybe the trial judge won't.              As for needing to be sick to challenge the MMAR in the       constitutional motion, not the Quash, JP, a juvenile, had       standing to have his Quash heard, and Sarah, charged as a       juvenile, has the same standing to have her Quash heard.              But he means whether she has standing to challenge her       charge by challenging the MMAR. Of course, she does. The       standing comes not from her being sick but from her being       charged with an offence dependent on the existence of a       working exemption.              Whether it's a sick person proving the MMAR flawed, as       Hitzig did and then JP used Bad Exemption = No Offence to       have his charge quashed, is irrelevant. If the exemption       isn't working, the prohibition is off for everyone, because       the Crown dropped the 4,000 charges against everyone across       Canada and sick of not. So prove the exemption isn't working       and you get off. It can't only apply to sick people.              So she has the standing to prove the MMAR is a Bad Exemption       so she gets her charge quashed like JP during the No       Offence. Since the Offence is linked to the Exemption,       pursuant to the JP, someone charged with the Offence has to       have the standing to determine if the exemption was working       or if they have an out when it wasn't. That didn't get       raised but will come up before the trial judge.              Finally, the judge complimented Sarah on being reasonable       and said her helpfulness would no doubt be taken into       account. That sounded nice. And let's face it, we're not       here to waste anybody's time, Sarah's got good cards and we       want to know if they win.              Finally, I prepared a motion to resume the presumption Sarah       could use the tape recorded which will be dealt with at the       next hearing. She shouldn't fight this historic case without       a neat souvenir she can listen to forever after.              File No.:        ONTARIO COURT OF JUSTICE       Between        Sarah Spottiswood        Applicant/Accused        - and -        Her Majesty The Queen        Respondent               NOTICE OF APPLICATION TO RECORD PROCEEDINGS        Pursuant to S.136(b) of the Courts of Justice Act              TAKE NOTICE THAT on Feb 27 2013 or as soon as possible       thereafter will be heard the Application by the Accused at       the courthouse at London.              THE RELIEF SOUGHT IS AN ORDER       C) resuming the presumption in the Practice Direction of       approval for Applicant to tape-record the proceedings.       THE APPLICANT MAY BE SERVED WITH DOCUMENTS PERTINENT TO THIS       APPLICATION AT 629 Oxford St. E., London ON N5Y 3J2,       Dated at London Feb 27 2013       Sarah Spottiswood               AFFIDAVIT OF SARAH SPOTTISWOOD              I, Sarah Spottiswood, residing at              1. In 1988, John Turmel, accused in a gaming house charge,       was permitted to tape record the proceeding pursuant to the       Courts of Justice Act S.136 which states:       "(2) Nothing in subsection (1),(b) prohibits a lawyer, a       party acting in person or a journalist from unobtrusively       making an audio recording at a court hearing, in the manner       that has been approved by the judge, for the sole purpose of       supplementing or replacing handwritten notes. R.S.O. 1990,       c. C.43, s. 136 (2); 1996, c. 25, s. 1 (22).              2. Exhibit A is the April 10 1989 Practice Direction issued       by W.G.C. Howland, Chief Justice of Ontario and approved by       the Ontario Courts Advisory Council. It says:       "RECORDING OF COURT PROCEEDINGS BY A SOLICITOR, A PARTY       ACTING IN PERSON OR A JOURNALIST       Subject to any order made by the presiding judge as to non-       publication of court proceedings and to the right of the       presiding judge to give such direction from time to time as       he or she may see fit as to the matter in which an audio              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
(c) 1994, bbs@darkrealms.ca