XPost: uk.politics.guns, aus.politics.guns, aus.politics
XPost: talk.politics.guns
From: me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
news:atjh2kFku7dU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 4/21/2013 7:35 AM, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
>> news:atev54Fkl0sU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 4/20/2013 3:53 PM, Scout wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
>>>> news:atec94Fgv0lU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> On 4/20/2013 11:19 AM, Scout wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ate4m7Ffj68U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> On 4/20/2013 9:44 AM, Scout wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:ate2shFf89pU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2013 9:27 AM, Scout wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>> news:ate000Fek8tU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2013 8:39 AM, Dechucka wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "RD Sandman" wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsA1A782B5E82D8hopewell@216.196.121.131...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:atc1j0F11bvU1@mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/19/2013 7:56 AM, Dechucka wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .... something as simple as universal background checks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passed. Maybe the US is just a sick and violent society
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **Not so much. The US is saddled with a bunch of gutless
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> politicians,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who value the opinions of the NRA more than their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constituents.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of Americans are probably disgusted with their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> senators. They need to be reminded of just how weak these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creatures
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They're not interested in the well-being of the American
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are interested in re-election.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> sad, so election is more important than dead Americans
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> **It would seem so. Except to a tiny handful of Republican
>>>>>>>>>>> senators
>>>>>>>>>>> and the majority of Democrat senators. Americans should keep
>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>> names in mind. Both the brave ones and the gutless ones.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the ones that voted for it need to go,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **Why do you support a criminal's right to obtain firearms?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Who said I do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **You object to good, sane controls on guns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do? Where did I do so?
>>>>>
>>>>> **In every single discussion you and I have had regarding gun control
>>>>> laws.
>>>>
>>>> In every single discussion there was no good, sane gun control being
>>>> proposed.
>>>
>>> **That would your opinion. As shown by events, a wrong opinion.
>>
>> If it's a matter of opinion then that means you can't really define
>> exactly what a good sane gun control law is other than it's something
>> YOU approve of.
>
> **Wrong. Good, sane gun control laws acheive results.
Not necessarily. Bad, tyrannical, even evil laws can also achieve results.
Just because you have results doesn't make the law good and sane.
> Like the laws we have here in Australia. All have been shown to acheive
> results.
Really?
Please produce your scientific proof of causality.
----> Insert here.
Please note, I said causality, not correlation.
Remember "Correlation doe not imply causality".
>> Kind of like those people who can't tell you want an assault weapon is,
>> but they will know it when they see it.
>
> **Strawman duly noted.
Really? You think there aren't people like that?
>>>>>>> Therefore, you support a criminal's right to easily obtain firearms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, one doesn't follow from the other, particularly when I haven't
>>>>>> objected to good, sane controls on guns.
>>>>>
>>>>> **You have objected to good sane gun control laws. In every single
>>>>> discussion you and I have had.
>>>>
>>>> Point out a single good sane gun control law that I objected to.
>>>
>>> **I'll point out several:
>>>
>>> * ALL gun sales must be registered with government authorities. EVERY
>>> SINGLE gun sale.
>>
>> It's insanity to assume criminals are going to register their illegal
>> sales on the black market.
>
> **Since ALL gun sales must be reported, fewer guns will be sold to
> criminals by legal gun owners. That can only be regarded as a positive
> step.
Really? Even the illegal sales will be reported?
Hello.... think Trevor....if the transaction is illegal, then it's not going
to be reported and your attempt fails.
Further your assumption above assumes facts not in evidence, nor does it
consider criminals simply turning to other sources.
Further as a 'step' that means it doesn't produce tangible results. Thus by
your own standard it is not a good, sane law since it doesn't produce such
results.
>> Next?
>>
>>
>>> * EVERY SINGLE gun purchase must be subject to government approval.
>>
>> Not good law, since we specifically have a protected right to keep and
>> bear arms, and thus don't need to ask for, or obtain permission.
>
> **Wrong. In many US jurisdictions you must obtain permission.
You mean like DC and Chicago where such laws have been overturned as
Unconstitutional?
>>> * Semi-automatic firearms to be banned.
>>
>> Not good law since there is no reasonable basis for doing so, and of
>> course that all right to keep arms is still there.
>
> **Since semi-autos are unnecessary, except for killing large numbers of
> humans, it is an excellent idea to ban them.
Ah, so rights are only about having what others decide is 'necessary' for
you.
Further simply because you assert they are unnecessary does NOT justify any
action to ban them.
So clearly this isn't good, sane gun control.
>>> * Magazines holding more than 10 bullets to be declared illegal and
>>> subject to severe punishmenrt, if found to be used.
>>
>>
>> Not good law since there is no reasonable basis for doing so, and of
[continued in next message]
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