XPost: uk.politics.guns, aus.politics.guns, aus.politics   
   XPost: talk.politics.guns   
   From: trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au   
      
   On 4/23/2013 9:18 AM, Scout wrote:   
   >   
   >   
   > "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message   
   > news:atlsu0F6niuU1@mid.individual.net...   
   >> On 4/23/2013 8:30 AM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:atkfi3Fr1mrU1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>> On 4/22/2013 4:45 PM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message   
   >>>>> news:atk47kFoj0aU1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>>>> On 4/22/2013 4:17 PM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>> news:atjmslFm001U1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>>>>>> On 4/22/2013 12:07 PM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>> message   
   >>>>>>>>> news:atjh2kFku7dU1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2013 7:35 AM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>>>> message   
   >>>>>>>>>>> news:atev54Fkl0sU1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2013 3:53 PM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:atec94Fgv0lU1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2013 11:19 AM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ate4m7Ffj68U1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2013 9:44 AM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ate2shFf89pU1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2013 9:27 AM, Scout wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ate000Fek8tU2@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2013 8:39 AM, Dechucka wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "RD Sandman"    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsA1A782B5E82D8hopewell@216.196.121.131...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trevor Wilson    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:atc1j0F11bvU1@mid.individual.net:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/19/2013 7:56 AM, Dechucka wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .... something as simple as universal background   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> checks   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't be   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passed. Maybe the US is just a sick and violent   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> society   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **Not so much. The US is saddled with a bunch of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gutless   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> politicians,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who value the opinions of the NRA more than their   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constituents.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of Americans are probably disgusted with   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> senators. They need to be reminded of just how weak   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creatures   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They're not interested in the well-being of the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> American   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are interested in re-election.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sad, so election is more important than dead Americans   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **It would seem so. Except to a tiny handful of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> senators   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the majority of Democrat senators. Americans should   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> names in mind. Both the brave ones and the gutless   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ones.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, the ones that voted for it need to go,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **Why do you support a criminal's right to obtain   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firearms?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who said I do?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **You object to good, sane controls on guns.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do? Where did I do so?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> **In every single discussion you and I have had regarding gun   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> control   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> In every single discussion there was no good, sane gun control   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> being   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> proposed.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> **That would your opinion. As shown by events, a wrong opinion.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> If it's a matter of opinion then that means you can't really   
   >>>>>>>>>>> define   
   >>>>>>>>>>> exactly what a good sane gun control law is other than it's   
   >>>>>>>>>>> something   
   >>>>>>>>>>> YOU approve of.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> **Wrong. Good, sane gun control laws acheive results.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Not necessarily.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> **Yes, necessarily.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> So if you can't show results that were actually caused by that law,   
   >>>>>>> then   
   >>>>>>> we can both agree it wasn't a good, sane law?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> **I've already provided the results of the Australian gun control   
   >>>>>> laws. All good.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> No, you've asserted them, and you claimed they were the result of the   
   >>>>> change in the laws.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>  Bad, tyrannical, even evil laws can also achieve   
   >>>>>>>>> results.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> **Indeed. Bad results.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> So simply pointing to results, assuming you can actually prove any,   
   >>>>>>> doesn't automatically mean it was a good, sane law. You still   
   >>>>>>> have to   
   >>>>>>> PROVE that.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> IOW, you've just made the criteria of proof even harder for   
   >>>>>>> yourself.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>  Just because you have results doesn't make the law good and sane.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Exactly, and thanks for stepping into the trap.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> **There is no trap to step into. I've cited the changes to gun   
   >>>>>> laws in   
   >>>>>> Australia. You cannot show where these changes are bad. In fact, the   
   >>>>>> reverse is true.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I don't have to show the changes were bad, you have to show they were   
   >>>>> good by the standard you set.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> So let's see the causality you claim exists.   
   >>>>>   
      
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