XPost: talk.politics.guns, uk.politics.guns, aus.politics.guns   
   XPost: aus.politics.guns   
   From: me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net   
      
   "Dechucka"  wrote in message   
   news:TKOdnRzXKv_sHB_PnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...   
   >   
   > "Murff"  wrote in message   
   > news:l5q5h6$o79$15@dont-email.me...   
   >> On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:58:28 +1100, Dechucka wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> "RD Sandman"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:XnsA274A56142D5EHopewell@216.196.121.131...   
   >>>> "Dechucka"  wrote in   
   >>>> news:UYudnSRGbNeHgR3PnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> as I said in the US even something as sensible as universal background   
   >>>>> checks is too hard. Refer to the subject line   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Yep, I was just telling you where some of that trouble came from.  Our   
   >>>> own government.   
   >>>   
   >>> who introduced sensible changes   
   >>   
   >> I'm not sure in light of Sandman's comment that it matters whether   
   >> changes are sensible or not (entirely aside from the question of who gets   
   >> to define "sense"). What matters is whether people can be carried along   
   >> by those changes. Clearly there are some who never will - the "cold dead   
   >> hands" constituency. But libertarianism aside there seem to be two   
   >> principal hardships:   
   >>   
   >> 1. Distrust of government (Sandman's point), and   
   >>   
   >> 2. Willingness to accept the broader down-side consequences of an armed   
   >> society in order to retain the ability to provide for ones' own defence.   
   >>   
   >> The second of these is a choice Americans are free to make - and as a   
   >> choice it is one that others are free to attempt to persuade against. But   
   >> such persuasion struggles because it essentially requires personal   
   >> security to be outsourced to government to some extent or another. And   
   >> when the government is distrusted that is not a good sell.   
   >   
   > Yep, guns will remain as part of US society with the obvious downsides and   
   > from my pov little benefit   
      
   That's nice, but I will simply not that a lot of other people have a   
   different pov....even the government has a different pov as they find guns   
   to be of great benefit and even provide them to people for free in certain   
   cases so that they can defend themselves.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)