XPost: talk.politics.misc, us.military, us.military.navy   
   XPost: aus.politics.guns, uk.politics.guns   
   From: Voter@Vote2016.com   
      
   Self Defense is a human right.  Guns are a human right.  We shouldn't take   
   destructive measures to solve this actually tiny problem.  But we can enhance   
   freedoms to solve it, by letting legitimized teens carry guns in self defense.   
   It's not like 99% of the girls are ever doing anything violent, for instance.   
      
   Taking destructive measures when the destruction only adds up to 437 (177 of   
   those   
   student) killed in gun massacres in 20 years is ridiculous.  Though 117 of the   
   437, (25%) since the beginning of 2017 due to three deadly attacks: 17 + 58 +   
   25 =   
   100 lives, (and five more with 17 deaths total).  This is still at the bottom   
   when   
   considering leading causes of death in America, and no argument whatsoever to   
   destroy rights, or ban guns.   
      
   This is in a huge nation.  3 such deaths in California in the last year.  And   
   those weren't students.   
      
   The real issue with guns is more like the tragedy when someone who was   
   previously   
   a good gun owner, uses a gun by mistake in a heat of passion, - if when upset,   
   and   
   isn't even a hoodlum.  Because the government effectively executes that person   
   in   
   any case.   
      
   Guns are also a liability for those who might make threats online.  The number   
   of   
   S.W.A.T. attacks has increased tenfold since the 1980s.  Where there used to be   
   8,000 S.W.A.T. attacks per year, there are now 80,000.  I ask, how many   
   convicted   
   of threatening massacres in the last 20 years across the whole United States,   
   who   
   wouldn't actually have done so, versus how many killed in them - 437 plus how   
   many   
   would have acted if not attacked by the government...  If I intend to make $1   
   billion, can I just have it now?   
      
   A discussion of self-defense is definitely in order.  If you believe you are in   
   danger of life or limb or kidnapping, or are being battered or restrained, you   
   have a right to use deadly force to defend yourself, but fleeing is a better   
   solution if possible.  Restraint easily leads to tied.  Tied easily leads to   
   being   
   kidnapped.   
      
   If we're going to carry guns in self defense we need intelligent self-defense   
   plans.  Not something ad-hoc in the heat of the moment.   
      
   Simple assault such as someone throwing a glass of water on you, or someone   
   throwing popcorn at you is not an excuse to use violent force.  Yet if someone   
   picks up a rock in the wilderness and says "I'm going to kill you," that   
   should be   
   sufficient.  It's still better to save their life and yours, if possible, and   
   thus   
   that is what we should be taught to do, if possible, but you have a right to   
   use   
   deadly force.   
      
   Cops shouldn't be expected to rush into a hail of gunfire.  They will sit   
   outside   
   and wait for S.W.A.T. to assemble, which may take 10-110 minutes.  S.W.A.T. is   
   not   
   sitting around like the fire department ready to go.  If four cops arrive at   
   the   
   scene within minutes, rushing in will only ensure that at least one of them is   
   gunned down imminently.  Cops deal with dangerous situations maybe every   
   week.  If   
   they do not respond with protocol, they will loose their lives.  You, on the   
   other   
   hand, if you find yourself in such a situation, have the one chance in your   
   lifetime perhaps, to be a hero.  _If_ your chances are 50/50, you can maybe   
   come   
   through it alive, and maybe live.  You might choose to be a hero.  S.W.A.T.   
   waited   
   over an hour to breach the door at the Vegas shooting.  But I bet there were   
   dozens of people in the crowd of 22,000 who would have rushed in, with all   
   those   
   lives in jeopardy.  Still kind of dicey without S.W.A.T., and without just   
   throwing a grenade in at the guy though.  Also, in regards to my last post, a   
   teacher could, like you, decide to be a hero too, if the psycho opened fire at   
   lunchtime, and unlike a cop who deals with it all the time.   
      
   If a single fireman shows up to a burning building, he is not going to rush   
   in, he   
   is pretty much going to watch it burn, until the Calvary arrives - I think.   
      
   If you personally want to be a hero, you've got a better chance of persisting   
   in   
   this life than a cop that goes up against danger every other day.  That's the   
   way   
   it works.   
      
      
   Also I left out the New York City ISIL Truck attack above, which killed 8 in   
   2017.   
     125 killed total in massacres since the beginning of 2017.  All the gun   
   "regulations," and "laws," in the world wouldn't have stopped that.  He rented   
   that truck at Home Depot for $19.95 for 75 minutes.  What will we ban, or   
   "regulate" next?  Rocks?  I can imagine ISIL pelting New Yorkers with   
   cobblestones   
   from a barricaded apartment in New York City for half an hour.  Hey, we're at   
   war   
   with them, what do you expect.  But domestically, we can do better!   
      
   As to student massacres, there has been but one other in the last 20 years   
   since   
   Columbine - which took 15 lives, at the High School level (not counting Sandy   
   Hook, which was not a student, but probably a poor person, and took 26   
   schoolchildren's lives), which took five or more lives.  The Red Lake Massacre   
   in   
   2005, which claimed 9 lives thirteen years ago.  That's three significant high   
   school massacres in 20 years, taking 17+9+15=41 lives total in 20 years.   
   Granted,   
   no one should have to suffer such things.  Yet no one should have to suffer   
   prohibitions either.  You have a right to keep and bear arms at all ages.   
   Retards   
   have a right to keep and bear arms. People under 18 or 22, are uneducated.    
   People   
   8-10 may be in a gray area of retard, or just uneducated. People 3-7, are   
   retarded.  But I find it hard to believe that even 3-7 olds lack the mental   
   capacity to learn to contract or manage their own affairs.  Retards do it.    
   People   
   1-3 are super retards possibly, or probably wards.  Babies are as if asleep or   
   in   
   a coma.   
      
      
   For reference, in the last 20 years there was one more High School shooting   
   that   
   killed 4 people, one more that killed 3 people, and four more that killed 2   
   people.  So six school massacres with lesser body counts, and 15 more dead   
   total.   
   You can see the full list in my other post where I analyzed these massacres   
   more.   
      
   Also, it should be noted, the injured are never broken down by slightly   
   injured,   
   and seriously injured.  If people suffered permanent serious injury, that is as   
   significant and severe as a death, but then we also have to compare that to the   
   number seriously injured by car accidents (~30,000 dead per year) or cigarettes   
   (~400,000 dead per year) as things are relative.  No idea on the number   
   seriously   
   permanently injured by car accidents, cigarettes or other things, as the   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)