XPost: comp.theory, sci.logic   
   From: richard@damon-family.org   
      
   On 7/20/25 6:57 PM, olcott wrote:   
   > On 7/20/2025 5:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >> On 7/20/25 10:33 AM, olcott wrote:   
   >>> On 7/20/2025 6:11 AM, joes wrote:   
   >>>> Am Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:36:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:   
   >>>>> On 7/19/2025 4:26 PM, wij wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Sat, 2025-07-19 at 16:05 -0500, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>>> DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot reach past the "if" statement   
   >>>>>>> thus cannot reach the "return" statement.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> That is roughly what HP proof says.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> Not at all. The HP proof claims that DD correctly simulated by HHH   
   >>>>> reaches the self-contradictory part of DD and thus forms a   
   >>>>> contradiction.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> No. It proves that the direct execution reaches the part that contra-   
   >>>> dicts HHH's return value.   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>>    
   >>> Misrepresentation of Input:   
   >>> The standard proof assumes a decider   
   >>> H(M,x) that determines whether machine   
   >>> M halts on input x.   
   >>>   
   >>> But this formulation is flawed, because:   
   >>> Turing machines can only process finite   
   >>> encodings (e.g. ⟨M⟩), not executable entities   
   >>> like M.   
   >>>   
   >>> So the valid formulation must be   
   >>> H(⟨M⟩,x), where ⟨M⟩ is a string.   
   >>>    
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> In other words, your explaination to Chat GPR was just in error, as   
   >> the decider *IS* given the representation of the program M.   
   >>   
   >   
   > H(M,x) is wrong and H(⟨M⟩,x) is correct.   
   > You must actually pay attention or you miss   
   > important details.   
   >   
      
   But YOU are the one that said that DDD needs to call HHH(DDD) to meet   
   the specificaitons.   
      
   Thus it is YOUR error,   
      
   Of course, the problem is try to be talking about Turing Machines, and   
   the call you wrote wasn't intended to be in a discusison of Turing   
   Machines, so it is YOU that made the category error,   
      
   Sorry, you are just AGAIN showing you don't understand what you are   
   talking about but just quoting stuff by rote that you never learned,   
   causing you to just lie.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)