XPost: comp.theory, sci.logic   
   From: polcott333@gmail.com   
      
   On 7/25/2025 3:49 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:   
   > Op 23.jul.2025 om 15:31 schreef olcott:   
   >> On 7/23/2025 3:24 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:   
   >>> Op 23.jul.2025 om 06:05 schreef olcott:   
   >>>> On 7/22/2025 9:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> No, YOU changed the subject of the problem from the OBJECTIVE   
   >>>>> behavior of the execution of DDD, to the SUBJECTIVE criteria of   
   >>>>> what HHH sees.   
   >>>>>   
   >>   
   >> It is always the case that every halt decider is   
   >> only accountable for the behavior that its actual   
   >> input specifies and not accountable for the behavior   
   >> of any non-inputs. The textbooks don't do it this   
   >> way proves that textbooks are wrong.   
   >   
   > As usual irrelevant claim without evidence   
   > Up to now you could not point to any textbook that is wrong.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Textbooks incorrectly assume that the behavior specified   
   >> by the finite string machine description of ⟨M⟩ is always   
   >> the same as the behavior of machine M. That is not the   
   >> case when M calls its own termination analyzer.   
   >   
   > As usual repeated claims without any evidence.   
   > The behaviour specified in the description of the input does not depend   
   > on who analyses it. When some analysers are unable to see the whole   
   > specification, that is an error in the analyser, it does not change the   
   > specification.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Turing machine halt deciders compute the mapping from   
   >> their input finite strings to the behavior that these   
   >> finite strings specify.   
   >   
   > Exactly.   
   > And when a halting behaviour is specified, but the analyser is unable to   
   > see that, the analyser is wrong. It should not compute the behaviour of   
   > a hypothetical non-halting non-input.   
   >   
   >>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> *Its been three years now and you can't remember*   
   >>>>    
   >>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its   
   >>>>      input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D   
   >>>>      would never stop running unless aborted then   
   >>>>   
   >>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D   
   >>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.   
   >>>>    
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Repeating the agreement with a vacuous statement is no rebuttal.   
   >>> Since there is no H that correctly simulates D until it correctly   
   >>> detects that its D would never stop unless aborted', the conclusion   
   >>> is irrelevant.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> _DD()   
   >> [00002162] 55             push ebp   
   >> [00002163] 8bec           mov ebp,esp   
   >> [00002165] 51             push ecx   
   >> [00002166] 6862210000     push 00002162 // push DD   
   >> [0000216b] e862f4ffff     call 000015d2 // call HHH   
   >> [00002170] 83c404         add esp,+04   
   >> [00002173] 8945fc         mov [ebp-04],eax   
   >> [00002176] 837dfc00       cmp dword [ebp-04],+00   
   >> [0000217a] 7402           jz 0000217e   
   >> [0000217c] ebfe           jmp 0000217c   
   >> [0000217e] 8b45fc         mov eax,[ebp-04]   
   >> [00002181] 8be5           mov esp,ebp   
   >> [00002183] 5d             pop ebp   
   >> [00002184] c3             ret   
   >> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002184]   
   >   
   >   
   > You have been told many times that these 35 bytes are not the complete   
   > input. In fact they are the least interesting part of the input. DD is   
   > completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that HHH must simulate itself.   
   >   
   >         int main() {   
   >           return HHH(main);   
   >         }   
   >   
   > Here is no DD, and your own words are that HHH returns and reports that   
   > it does not halt.   
   > This clearly shows that HHH is unable to analyse its own behaviour and   
   > produces false negative when it tries to do so.   
   >   
      
   When-so-ever the input to a simulating termination   
   analyzer calls its actual self as (your example above)   
   or when the HHH(DDD) input calls HHH(DDD) this does   
   specify recursive emulation that must be aborted to   
   prevent the non-termination of the directly executed HHH.   
      
   --   
   Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius   
   hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)