XPost: comp.theory, sci.logic   
   From: F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl   
      
   Op 01.aug.2025 om 17:12 schreef olcott:   
   > On 8/1/2025 4:00 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:   
   >> Op 30.jul.2025 om 16:52 schreef olcott:   
   >>> On 7/30/2025 4:23 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:   
   >>>> Op 30.jul.2025 om 05:12 schreef olcott:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> This just occurred to me:   
   >>>>> *HHH(DDD)==0 is also correct for another different reason*   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Even if we construed the HHH that DDD calls a part of the   
   >>>>> program under test it is true that neither the simulated   
   >>>>> DDD nor the simulated HHH cannot possibly reach their own   
   >>>>> final halt state.   
   >>>> Indeed. But there are different reasons:   
   >>>> The simulating HHH fails to reach the final halt state of the   
   >>>> simulation because it does a premature abort,   
   >>> *I challenge you to show a premature abort*   
   >>   
   >> This has been presented tro you many times, but you close your eyes   
   >> for it and pretend that it does not exist.>   
   >>> _DDD()   
   >>> [00002192] 55         push ebp   
   >>> [00002193] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   
   >>> [00002195] 6892210000 push 00002192  // push DDD   
   >>> [0000219a] e833f4ffff call 000015d2  // call HHH   
   >>> [0000219f] 83c404     add esp,+04   
   >>> [000021a2] 5d         pop ebp   
   >>> [000021a3] c3         ret   
   >>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3]   
   >>   
   >> We have told you that the suggestion that these 18 bytes are the whole   
   >> input is misleading and incorrect. The input also includes all   
   >> function called by DDD, directly or indirectly, including the HHH that   
   >> aborts after a few cycles.   
   >> This input specifies a halting program as other correct simulators and   
   >> direct execution prove.   
   >>   
   >   
   > Neither the directly executed HHH() the directly executed DDD()   
   > not DDD correctly simulated by HHH can possibly ever stop running   
   > unless HHH(DDD) aborts the simulation of its input.   
      
   It is an irrelevant change of subject to imagine a hypothetical   
   non-input that has no abort code.   
      
   >   
   > Turing machine halt deciders are only accountable for the   
   > behavior that their inputs specifies thus the behavior   
   > of non-input direct executions has always been outside   
   > of their domain. The DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot   
   > possibly halt proves that HHH is correct to reject its input.   
      
      
   No, it shows that HHH fails to reach the final halt state, where a   
   simulator (even when named HHH) that does not abort,has no problem to   
   reach the final halt state.   
      
   >   
   >>>   
   >>> We have been over this too many times. If it actually   
   >>> is a premature abort then you could specify the number   
   >>> of N instructions of DDD that must be correctly emulated   
   >>> by HHH such that DDD reaches its own final halt state.   
   >>   
   >> As usual a false claim.   
   >   
   > void DDD()   
   > {   
   >    HHH(DDD);   
   >    return;   
   > }   
   >   
   > _DDD()   
   > [00002192] 55         push ebp   
   > [00002193] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   
   > [00002195] 6892210000 push 00002192  // push DDD   
   > [0000219a] e833f4ffff call 000015d2  // call HHH   
   > [0000219f] 83c404     add esp,+04   
   > [000021a2] 5d         pop ebp   
   > [000021a3] c3         ret   
   > Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3]   
   >   
   > If there is an actual *premature abort* then there   
   > is a specific point in the execution trace where   
   > DDD correctly simulated by HHH stops running without   
   > ever being aborted. Otherwise you are using the term   
   > *premature abort* incorrectly.   
   Illogical, counter-factual and incorrect claim without evidence.   
   It is exactly the premature abort that causes that the final halt state   
   is not reached. Of, course the trace of that prematurely aborted   
   simulation does not show the last part of a correct simulation.   
   But a comparison with a correct simulation done by e.g. HHH1, shows the   
   exact point where the final halt state is reached and where HHH does the   
   premature abort.   
      
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