XPost: comp.theory, sci.logic   
   From: F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl   
      
   Op 07.aug.2025 om 05:24 schreef olcott:   
   > On 8/6/2025 9:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >> On 8/6/25 7:53 AM, olcott wrote:   
   >>> On 8/6/2025 5:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>> On 8/5/25 11:47 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> It corrects the error of the requirement that   
   >>>>> a halt decider reports on its own behavior.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> But it isn't an error.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Halt Deciders need to answer about *ANY* program, and they are   
   >>>> programs.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>     "The contradiction in Linz's (or Turing's) self-referential   
   >>>>>      halting construction only appears if one insists that the   
   >>>>>      machine can and must decide on its own behavior, which is   
   >>>>>      neither possible nor required."   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> https://chatgpt.com/share/6890ee5a-52bc-8011-852e-3d9f97bcfbd8   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Because you lied to it and said it was an error.   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> The above paragraph is proved true by the meaning of its words.   
   >>> When we ask a Turing machine to report on its own behavior we   
   >>> are assuming that its Turing Machine description is an accurate   
   >>> proxy for this behavior. When there are exceptions to this rule   
   >>> then we cannot possibly ask a Turing machine about its own behavior.   
   >>> This is easily corrected:   
   >>   
   >> But the existance of UTMs means that it IS possible to make a perfect   
   >> proxy, as the UTM can completely recreate the behavior of ANY machine   
   >> from its Turing Machine Description.   
   >>   
   >> All you are doing is admitting that you think errors and lies are ok.   
   >>   
   >   
   >     Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.UTM ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy,   
   >     Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.UTM ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn   
   >   
   > After a finite number of correct simulations the UTM   
   > will reach its final state yet no simulated UTM ever   
   > reaches its own final state.   
   >   
      
   Indeed, that is the proof that such a simulation fails.   
   No simulator exists that is able to simulate correctly all halting   
   programs up to the end,because it fails to simulate correctly code that   
   resembles its own code.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)